Building a Sustainable Practice: A Psychologist's Journey in Balancing Growth and Fulfillment with Dr. Jeremy Sharp, founder of the Colorado Center for Assessment and Counseling and host of The Testing Psychology Podcast

[00:00:02] Hey everyone, welcome back to the Outcomes Rocket founder stories. I'm so excited you tune in to another episode because today I have the outstanding Dr. Jeremy Sharp with us. He's a licensed psychologist and director at the Colorado Center for Assessment and Counseling, a private practice that he founded in 2009 and has grown to over $2 million in annual revenue. He earned his undergraduate degree in experimental psychology from the University of California,

[00:00:32] before getting his master's and PhD in Counseling Psychology from Colorado State University. These days Jeremy specializes in comprehensive neurodevelopmental evaluations with kids and adolescents. He's also a host of an amazing podcast, The Testing Psychology Podcast. He's got a super engaged community there and I'm excited to just have him here on the podcast to give us the latest on the work that he's up to. So Jeremy, thanks so much for joining us.

[00:01:00] Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm really glad to be here.

[00:01:02] Well, Jeremy, you've done incredible work both in your career as a clinician, as a leader, and even on the media side with your podcast. I'm excited to learn more about you. Tell us a little bit about what got you started in your journey in healthcare.

[00:01:17] Yeah, like I said, I went to grad school to become a psychologist. I think when I started, I didn't really know what that meant, but I certainly found out along the way and filled in the gaps a little bit.

[00:01:28] And yeah, I started my private practice back in 2009 and did direct client care for a long time. But then maybe six or seven years into it, I was getting a little bit of that kind of itchy entrepreneurial feeling again and wanted to find a medium or an outlet to do a little more teaching or something like teaching.

[00:01:49] And luckily I had a business coach that sent me down the podcast path and started the podcast back in 2017 to reach other psychologists who specialize in what I do and try to provide some education and some business advice along the way.

[00:02:06] Jeremy, you've been in it for a long time because 2017, that's like before podcasts were cool.

[00:02:14] It's funny to think of it that way. It does feel like a long time ago.

[00:02:19] Well, you're definitely a forward thinker and a pioneer and an innovator. What does your company and organization do to add value to the healthcare ecosystem?

[00:02:28] Yeah, I've got a couple things going on. The podcast, like I said, it's really aimed at other psychologists who are trying to run practices like mine where they specialize in neuropsych evals or psychological testing.

[00:02:40] It's a very small niche in the world of psychology, but I think it's pretty important.

[00:02:46] We do these big diagnostic workups with kids and adults and then hopefully connect them to resources in the community to help them thrive.

[00:02:54] So being able to share knowledge in that area is really special and help them on the business side as well so that they have sustainable practices that can continue to benefit the community.

[00:03:04] I love it.

[00:03:04] So that's a big part of it.

[00:03:06] That's great. And tell me more about that.

[00:03:08] Tell me about how you're helping these psychologists out there with their practices.

[00:03:14] Well, something I've found, I'm sure you have seen this working with healthcare folks, is that we get a lot of training in grad school to be good practitioners.

[00:03:23] We get zero training on how to be good business people.

[00:03:26] And so that aspect of the podcast is the part that I love the most to be able to share.

[00:03:32] It's really just sharing things that I have messed up over the past 15 or 16 years and had to learn about and read about and I'm still figuring out.

[00:03:41] But just being able to share that business knowledge with folks and provide a little, some guardrails to keep people's practices sustainable.

[00:03:49] That's what I love about it.

[00:03:51] Because it's hard.

[00:03:52] We're good practitioners.

[00:03:54] We're not usually great business people.

[00:03:55] I think it's great.

[00:03:56] Well, you're definitely adding some huge value to the industry in that way.

[00:03:59] What about the people that are not in the psychology space?

[00:04:04] This is a gap for them, right?

[00:04:05] They don't know where to go, where to get testing done.

[00:04:09] How should they approach the space?

[00:04:11] How could they find somebody like you and benefit?

[00:04:14] Yeah.

[00:04:15] As far as other psychologists who are trying to get into this line of work?

[00:04:19] Either psychologists.

[00:04:20] I was thinking more health systems, providers, schools that potentially might need the services that you offer.

[00:04:30] Oh, coming from the clinical side, almost as a client.

[00:04:34] Like your client.

[00:04:35] Yeah.

[00:04:36] Yeah.

[00:04:37] Yeah.

[00:04:37] Sure.

[00:04:37] Sure.

[00:04:38] Let's see.

[00:04:39] That's a great question about larger systems.

[00:04:41] I can think of it on a smaller scale as far as the community.

[00:04:46] I like to tell people to visit their physicians first and foremost.

[00:04:51] Usually physicians are plugged into the community and have a good idea who's out there doing the work that we do.

[00:04:56] If they are connected with other mental health practitioners like therapists or psychiatrists,

[00:05:01] they should also have a good idea where to go to get this comprehensive assessment done.

[00:05:05] And as far as larger systems, a lot of us are mainly in small private practices.

[00:05:10] So those larger systems might need to, I don't know, scale back their outreach a little bit and just Google like normal people and find out who's doing this work in the community.

[00:05:20] Love it.

[00:05:21] Love it.

[00:05:21] No, that's awesome.

[00:05:22] And so you do on the one hand, clinical work, on the other hand, helping these practices scale.

[00:05:29] Out of all the things that you do, how would you say you do it better than what's out there in a unique way?

[00:05:35] Well, I'm lucky, I think, in that for whatever reason, circumstances, whatever it may be, I, to my knowledge, I'm still the only podcast slash consultant in this space.

[00:05:47] I don't know how that's possible.

[00:05:49] And that's the best way to finish first is to be the only one in the race.

[00:05:52] And somehow that's still true seven years later.

[00:05:55] And that really helps.

[00:05:57] I love that.

[00:05:58] I love that.

[00:05:59] So if you guys are looking to scale your business in this space, Jeremy's the man, like not only has he done it, gotten his practice above 2 million, he's got over 500 episodes where he interviews people doing things the right way, helping to scale and help your practice be more rewarding.

[00:06:18] I think this is a huge thing.

[00:06:19] As you've built your business, Jeremy, what's been one of the biggest setbacks and what was the key learning that came from that?

[00:06:26] Well, I think on the practice side, you're catching me at a good time where we've gone through a major transition over the last six months.

[00:06:33] So we talk about revenue numbers are always easy to talk about, but we've scaled back to 2 million.

[00:06:40] We were way higher than that for a number of years.

[00:06:44] And over the last six months, I did a lot of reflecting, I think, around what is most meaningful in my life and what's bringing me the most joy and essentially cut our practice in a third.

[00:06:55] As far as employees and practitioners.

[00:06:58] And so we, people, they call it right sizing, right?

[00:07:01] It's not downsizing, it's right sizing.

[00:07:03] So we right sized over the last six months to a much more manageable practice structure.

[00:07:08] But that was, I think, the hardest thing I've had to do in the course of business development because I think the expectations, it's supposed to be always up and to the right.

[00:07:17] There's not a whole lot of folks talking about, okay, how do we maybe sustain or even go down a little bit to stay more sustainable and more healthy?

[00:07:27] And that was a tough choice.

[00:07:29] I had to say goodbye to a lot of really good people and grieve the future success, whatever that might have.

[00:07:34] Yeah. And so as you reflect on that, what's the one or two lessons that these last six months have taught you?

[00:07:43] I think one thing that jumps out, I'll see if I can phrase it the right way or capture it, is that at least in my case, I had the belief that running a business is just inherently difficult.

[00:07:58] That's just part of the deal of being a director, CEO, whatever it may be.

[00:08:03] And it took me a long time to listen to that internal voice that just kept saying, this is really hard.

[00:08:11] Should it be this hard? Do I really enjoy this?

[00:08:14] And just kept plowing through it.

[00:08:16] I was like, this is just what you do.

[00:08:17] Running a business is hard.

[00:08:18] And so that might be the lesson that sticks out the most is pay attention to what's happening internally.

[00:08:24] And if it sticks around for a little while, then there's probably some validity to that.

[00:08:29] And maybe you want to make a pivot one direction or the other and you don't just have to gut it out just for the sake of.

[00:08:33] Yeah. I can totally appreciate that.

[00:08:35] What was the hardest thing?

[00:08:37] The thing that made you say, this is it.

[00:08:40] Like I'm going back.

[00:08:41] What was the hardest thing for you?

[00:08:42] That's a really tough question.

[00:08:43] I think, gosh, over the last probably three months of 2023, maybe into January of 2024, there's just a series of events with some of our employees where the takeaway without getting in the weeds was just as a director.

[00:08:58] I just had this feeling of like, I am just, I don't know how to navigate through this.

[00:09:03] It seems like the more we try to improve the environment and the culture and support our folks, the worse it's getting and the unhappier people are feeling.

[00:09:13] And eventually after a few months of that, I stepped back and just thought, oh my gosh, I don't know if it was actually very humbling.

[00:09:20] I said, I don't know if I have the skill to do this right now.

[00:09:23] And I don't know if I have the capacity to try to learn those skills.

[00:09:27] And that I think was the moment, quote unquote, where I really started to consider, hey, maybe there's another path here and decided to scale back.

[00:09:36] Yeah. I respect your move and your ability to know, hey, this is where I want to be.

[00:09:40] This is what I want to do.

[00:09:41] So then has this moved, Jeremy?

[00:09:44] Because I know you have a love for the podcast and I know you have a meeting as well.

[00:09:49] Did that open up more bandwidth for you to do more of what you love?

[00:09:52] It did. It did.

[00:09:54] Now we are about three or four months into the transition at this point.

[00:09:58] And so I'm tentative, but it feels like night and day.

[00:10:01] Honestly, my mental health stress level.

[00:10:04] I'm still I think I'm probably actually working more.

[00:10:07] So it's not the quantity, but the quality of work is just so much better.

[00:10:12] I'm yeah.

[00:10:13] I love what I'm doing.

[00:10:14] Everything is mostly everything is enjoyable.

[00:10:17] It's just a lot less stressful.

[00:10:19] So I think it's been a good move.

[00:10:21] Amen to that.

[00:10:21] So opening up the door to opportunities here, the new areas that you're focused on, like just help share those with our listeners.

[00:10:30] If there's an opportunity for them to connect with you, if something you said resonated or maybe just to connect with you to explore what you offer now.

[00:10:38] Tell us what that is.

[00:10:39] Yeah, sure.

[00:10:40] If they're psychologists or practitioners out there who are wrestling with practice decisions, happy to talk through those.

[00:10:46] Done a lot of a lot of that work over the years on leadership and business development and that sort of thing.

[00:10:52] I love this.

[00:10:53] I've done an in-person event the past couple of years for psychologists who want to get together and do face to face connection and business coaching.

[00:11:01] And that has just been a blast and so powerful, I think, for the folks who were there.

[00:11:05] So that's been really cool.

[00:11:07] And, yeah, if there are any folks out there who have knowledge in this space and just want to connect and maybe chat on a podcast, I would love to do that as well.

[00:11:17] And the best way to find me probably is at the testing psychologist.

[00:11:20] So it's just the testing psychologist dot com.

[00:11:23] Well, there you have it, folks.

[00:11:24] Definitely worth listening to Dr.

[00:11:27] Jeremy Sharpe's podcast.

[00:11:29] Checking him out at the testing psychologist dot com.

[00:11:32] Just an incredible person, director at the Colorado Center for Assessment and Counseling, host of the testing psychologist podcast.

[00:11:42] And also he's never bored.

[00:11:43] He also co-founded a company called Reverb.

[00:11:46] It's an AI platform to help psychologists write evaluation reports better and faster.

[00:11:51] Now is the time.

[00:11:52] And he's your guy for anything psychology and testing psychology.

[00:11:56] So make sure you check him out.

[00:11:57] And Jeremy, thanks so much for being with us.

[00:11:59] This is a lot of fun.

[00:12:01] Yeah, I really appreciate it.

[00:12:02] Thanks for a genuine to the point conversation.

[00:12:05] This was great.

[00:12:06] Thanks.

[00:12:06] So, you know, we don't have a emotional connection.

[00:12:06] This was a music source, right?

[00:12:06] We don't have a great character because they do meditation programs.

[00:12:06] So make sure you check the policies hacerlo, we can lock them under the entry to our energy op team.

[00:12:06] We don't have a great character because we just need to land a friend of Northwestern American Ernest.