Educating Clinicians on AI Use in Healthcare with Reena Sooch, partner at Day One Strategy, and Arti Pullins, President and Chief Health Officer at QuestionPro

[00:00:00] Hey everybody, welcome back to the Outcomes Rocket here recording live at 5 in Los Angeles

[00:00:09] this year.

[00:00:10] Well, today I have the privilege of having two guests.

[00:00:13] And by the way guys, today's my birthday too.

[00:00:15] So happy to be here.

[00:00:17] Yeah, it's so great.

[00:00:19] Great to be here at such a vibrant event with two amazing leaders in healthcare.

[00:00:24] Rina Souch, partner at day One Strategy, no stranger to the podcast.

[00:00:28] You guys have heard from her before. She's here with us again.

[00:00:32] Artie Pollins, she is the president and chief health officer at Question Pro.

[00:00:37] I want to welcome you both to the podcast. Thanks for being here.

[00:00:39] Thank you. Thanks for having us, especially on your birthday.

[00:00:42] Absolutely. Always happy to be here. Outcomes.

[00:00:48] Thank you. Such a pleasure us, especially on your birthday. Absolutely. Always happy to be here. Outcomes. Thank you. It's such a pleasure to have you guys here. Now, we're going to be talking about the clinical companions report, a very exciting report that was released

[00:00:54] by both of your organizations here at the event. But before we do, let's tee it off

[00:00:58] with helping the listeners understand a little bit more about your organizations. Tell us

[00:01:02] about them. Sure. So I'll talk about QuestionPro first.

[00:01:06] QuestionPro is an experience management software company.

[00:01:10] And we collect any and all sorts of data.

[00:01:13] So where are the data geeks when it comes to understanding your customer,

[00:01:18] understanding your market, understanding your employees?

[00:01:20] We can go out and actually collect any sort of segmented data that you're looking to do.

[00:01:25] And we do it at a global level.

[00:01:27] So we're pretty excited to be here today and to launch this incredible market research

[00:01:31] study here at VIVE.

[00:01:33] So Day One's strategy is a global market research insight and data company which helps

[00:01:39] cart of clients in particular life sciences, med tech, biotech, launch new molecules,

[00:01:44] new drugs to market, but also digital.

[00:01:46] And that's where I come in.

[00:01:47] And my team, we are a digital strategy team

[00:01:50] which are focused on genetic survey

[00:01:52] eye, digital apps, wearables and what have you,

[00:01:55] and what they mean for health care.

[00:01:56] And it's been something we've been doing for many years.

[00:01:58] So we're really excited to have partnered with Question Pro

[00:02:01] and bringing together the hottest topic,

[00:02:04] which is everywhere at

[00:02:05] five, which is generative and what it means. For us, in my role, clinicians are really

[00:02:11] key to entry for tech, which is why we felt this report was important.

[00:02:16] Fantastic. The partnership is certainly one that I think deserves some attention. So let's

[00:02:21] talk about the clinical the clinical companions report.

[00:02:30] Why is this report so important and what do the listeners need to know about it? I'll start with that and, Reena, I would love your feedback on it. As Reena mentioned, AI,

[00:02:36] machine learning, LLMs, these aren't just acronyms being thrown around. These are very important aspects of healthcare, clinical care,

[00:02:47] patient care, and how clinicians and physicians are actually using artificial intelligence

[00:02:52] every single day in patient care. And we thought it was extremely important to go and find out from

[00:02:58] the front line clinical as well as healthcare specialists and what it means for them. How are they using it? How are they interacting with it? How do they feel

[00:03:07] about it? There's a lot of chatter about this at Vive and we were really excited

[00:03:13] to actually go really deep and be able to find out what are people actually from

[00:03:17] a clinical point of view? How are they using it? Are they fearful of it? And

[00:03:20] what are the implementations of it and applications coming up within the next year or so?

[00:03:46] Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think it's a pulse. Where are we? We're Gen. 2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0. parents. And then I wonder, okay, for doctors, and then what that means for patients.

[00:03:48] So when we were talking about what we wanna create

[00:03:51] and what we're hearing from our clients

[00:03:52] and from the market is we know this needs to happen

[00:03:56] and we need a road to that, we need a roadmap that,

[00:03:58] but we don't know where everyone is.

[00:04:00] So we felt, well, why don't we talk to 500 clinicians

[00:04:03] in the US, a bunch of different- And that was a to 500 clinicians in the US? A bunch of different...

[00:04:05] And that was a sample size, 500...

[00:04:06] 500.

[00:04:07] A bunch of different specialties.

[00:04:08] So oncologists were included, primary care was included,

[00:04:12] and we wanted to really get a grip on,

[00:04:15] are you even talking about it?

[00:04:17] Are you using it?

[00:04:18] And if you are using large language models, which ones?

[00:04:21] And the findings are super interesting.

[00:04:23] I had hypotheses, but it's gone... Some have been been confirmed and there's been some things which are exciting and interesting

[00:04:29] that I didn't expect.

[00:04:30] I love that. I love that. I make sure both. Let's unpack it. I'd love to really understand

[00:04:35] the components of the study, the things that proved in your hypothesis and the things that

[00:04:40] surprised.

[00:04:41] Sure. So six and 10 clinicians are aware of generative

[00:04:46] eye. So there's a conversation happening. They're aware that there's something about that. So six

[00:04:49] and every ten, which is more than the general population because they're clinicians and they're

[00:04:54] specialists. So you would expect that. But that does mean we still have a gap of 40,

[00:04:58] 40, 70% are not aware at all when need that education. Of those aware, chat GPT reigns supreme.

[00:05:07] It was 72% way, way ahead. In terms of those that are aware, and we're using a large language

[00:05:13] model. So chat GPT dominates, then Google have a play. Certainly their products barred, which

[00:05:18] has been renamed and relaunched as Gemini Pro, which is having huge evolution at the minute.

[00:05:23] But barred a Med Palm by lesser

[00:05:25] degree are also being accessed, but the rest really are not there at all. Whether you're

[00:05:30] looking at Lama, by Meta, Cloud, by Anthropic, Cohere, these guys were all included in our

[00:05:35] survey, but they're not really being accessed. So that's interesting. And when you're thinking

[00:05:39] for those companies here, via developing tech, what's currently even being used is an important answer,

[00:05:45] and it's an important insight. But we still have a very long way to go. There's this whole

[00:05:51] entire thing around trust, training, and regulation that came out of the report. So there's this

[00:05:59] questioning of how accurate the data is that comes in, there's this need for training and equipping clinicians

[00:06:06] because they do not feel confident.

[00:06:08] And there's a huge gap in policy

[00:06:11] because only a tenth of clinicians had ever seen any policy

[00:06:14] in their own organization about generative AI.

[00:06:17] And then more than that,

[00:06:19] they didn't even know if it was a strategic priority.

[00:06:21] But they don't even know if this discussion

[00:06:23] was being had at a leadership level. That was the one that surprised me. So that 30 something

[00:06:28] percent that said, oh, I think my leadership are prioritizing it. I think everybody is, right?

[00:06:33] And I think that was a really interesting point to that, Rina, that clinicians didn't realize that

[00:06:39] their leadership is and are actually looking into different AI models and generative AI tools

[00:06:47] versus here on the floor, the last 48 hours.

[00:06:50] All we've heard is leadership is looking into generative AI tools and different type of

[00:06:55] LLMs in order to implement for better patient care and administrative tasks, like reducing

[00:07:01] burden, reducing burnout from a clinician standpoint, creating more

[00:07:05] efficiency. But the frontline teams are not seeing that. They're not feeling that. That

[00:07:10] was very interesting.

[00:07:11] Yeah, that's an interesting finding. And look for all the providers listening to today's

[00:07:16] message. Are you communicating your strategy on these technologies to your team? And if

[00:07:22] you're not, it's a miss. And it's an opportunity to do that

[00:07:25] so they could be on the same page

[00:07:27] and see the vision of the organization.

[00:07:29] And then the use that I was gonna ask you guys,

[00:07:31] so when you say that these clinicians are using them,

[00:07:34] is this daily use?

[00:07:37] Is this clinical use?

[00:07:38] Is this any type of use?

[00:07:40] Good question.

[00:07:42] It's a very, everything's about different segmentations. So when you split

[00:07:47] down the conditions, there are the hyper users which are embedding it into their daily life,

[00:07:52] but they're a small proportion. And then the majority have somewhat dabbled, as the way

[00:07:56] I'd say it. And we did break down and in the full report, we showcase how it is being used

[00:08:02] in clinical practice. So something like clinical documentation

[00:08:05] that I already mentioned was up there

[00:08:07] in terms of one of the most popular ways of using JNI.

[00:08:09] But chatbots and virtual assistants also came up very high.

[00:08:13] And I'm wondering if we look at the signals, AI agents,

[00:08:17] co-pilots, however people want to frame it, are the future.

[00:08:19] So the fact that they're already seeing that use case

[00:08:22] is a real positive.

[00:08:23] The question is, are we bringing everyone along?

[00:08:25] Because this is when you break the data down

[00:08:27] from those aware, those using, and then those applying,

[00:08:30] the numbers really start to come down from 500.

[00:08:33] You're looking at 70 people that really understand

[00:08:35] what they're doing.

[00:08:36] So that's a huge road.

[00:08:37] That's a huge gap.

[00:08:38] And we have to really think, thoughtfully,

[00:08:40] about how we're going to bring everyone along

[00:08:41] at this speed that we're going at.

[00:08:43] And the panel I had yesterday, where we talked about this report,

[00:08:47] we were speaking on stage with the likes of Google,

[00:08:50] with Suki AI and a number of others about being...

[00:08:55] It's not about speed.

[00:08:57] It's not about how quickly you're going to get to the line

[00:08:59] because you could really mess this up.

[00:09:01] It's about being thoughtful.

[00:09:03] Figure out the problem to solve and thoughtfully get there. It's about being thoughtful. Figure out the problem to solve

[00:09:06] and thoughtfully get there.

[00:09:08] There's no finish line.

[00:09:09] This is an evolution and a change.

[00:09:11] This is changing the world.

[00:09:13] So let's not change the world overnight.

[00:09:15] We have to do it step by step.

[00:09:17] Absolutely.

[00:09:18] And I think there's fear, right?

[00:09:19] If you're a clinician or a physician on the front line,

[00:09:23] you don't wanna make a mistake in patient

[00:09:26] care and clinical care, right?

[00:09:29] Nobody wants that a physician and a nurse and a PA.

[00:09:31] Again, nobody wants that in healthcare, even on the business on the executive side.

[00:09:35] So to read us point, the panel was very clear yesterday.

[00:09:39] Take your time.

[00:09:40] Analyze, assess, figure out what are your patient needs, what are your healthcare needs,

[00:09:46] and then based on that build and provide.

[00:09:49] The other thing that Rina just touched on

[00:09:50] is the usability of AI in the field.

[00:09:54] I think a lot of it also our data shows is training.

[00:09:59] How to use it, when to use it,

[00:10:01] the application on how to use it.

[00:10:04] And we see this in every technology that gets released,

[00:10:08] whether it's AI right now or EHR systems almost 10, 20 years ago,

[00:10:13] it's this idea of I'm fearful because I don't fully understand it.

[00:10:17] I don't understand the value it's going to deliver to me.

[00:10:21] My clinical team, my patient at the end of the day,

[00:10:24] and once that education

[00:10:26] starts to flow more up and down stream, we'll see further adoption.

[00:10:31] Love that. And we've been talking a lot about the provider lens. It'd be interesting to

[00:10:37] put this report on as an innovator in the space, as a company. So what thoughts do you

[00:10:42] have for the innovators out there as they're designing

[00:10:45] their technologies and their solutions for the market? I would say there's a lot of interesting

[00:10:51] data here for them to take to two providers as a proof of concept for them, right? I know the

[00:10:58] biggest thing tech companies struggle with is getting access to this kind of data. This is

[00:11:03] it's not easy to get 500 clinicians together

[00:11:05] and ask them questions.

[00:11:07] So use this is my actual guide to them

[00:11:10] because there's so much richness here

[00:11:11] around hand holding that's needed for clinicians.

[00:11:14] The belief that this is going to change healthcare,

[00:11:16] the need for it, and also the use cases.

[00:11:19] One of the biggest things we're really conscious of

[00:11:22] is you're going to build generative life for sure, but you need to be really clear

[00:11:26] the problems you're solving and what technology

[00:11:31] is the right one?

[00:11:32] Don't just build a tech and then think it's going to

[00:11:35] cover everything and it shouldn't.

[00:11:37] So be really targeted, it's my advice.

[00:11:39] Take this data, look into it, contact us of course

[00:11:42] if you need any more information,

[00:11:44] but I feel there's something here for them to read leverage.

[00:11:47] That's fantastic. Appreciate that lens.

[00:11:50] Okay, so the report sounds thorough.

[00:11:53] They can have access to this.

[00:11:55] Yes, they can. And yes, and we'll give the access and the URL link after the podcast.

[00:12:00] But if you go on questionpro.com backslash healthcare,

[00:12:04] the data is available there

[00:12:05] now, or you can contact ReenRI directly and we're more than happy to give it to you.

[00:12:09] Amazing. There you have it folks. Reenha and Artie will include links to the resources,

[00:12:16] this report that they just launched in the show notes. So make sure you check that out.