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Harnessing Digital Innovation for Healthcare Transformation with Sonia Singh, the Chief Insights Officer at AVIA
February 07, 202400:22:37

Harnessing Digital Innovation for Healthcare Transformation with Sonia Singh, the Chief Insights Officer at AVIA

AVIA guides healthcare entities with a membership model, providing deep insights and strategic recommendations for impactful digital investments.

In this episode, Sonia Singh, the Chief Insights Officer at AVIA, discusses valuable insights into AVIA's role as a digital transformation partner to health systems, emphasizing their unique approach to market insights and the long-term relationships they build with their clients. Sonia discusses AVIA's role as a digital transformation partner for health systems, highlighting their commitment to leveraging innovation and creating sustainable solutions. She emphasizes AVIA's unique approach, providing market-leading insights, deep intelligence, and long-term collaborative support. Additionally, Sonia underscores AVIA's distinctiveness in the industry, driven by their commitment to actionable recommendations, ensuring the economic viability of digital investments, and their focus on human and cultural aspects in healthcare change management.

Explore AVIA's impactful solutions for digital health transformation in this episode, tailored for innovative companies and healthcare leaders.


Resources: 

  • Watch the entire episode here.
  • Connect and follow Sonia on LinkedIn here.
  • Learn more about AVIA on LinkedIn and its website.
[00:00.000 --> 00:07.760] Hey everybody, welcome back to the Outcomes Rocket, Saul Marquez here, and today I have [00:07.760 --> 00:15.020] the privilege of hosting Sonya Singh. She serves as the Chief Insights Officer at Avia, and [00:15.020 --> 00:20.080] she leads the Digital Insights Research and Thought Leadership function at Avia, ensuring [00:20.080 --> 00:25.480] that Avia brings the latest in digital innovation and market research and emerging digital capabilities [00:25.480 --> 00:31.640] and solutions. You guys have heard several podcasts on our show from folks from Avia. This will [00:31.640 --> 00:36.460] be a great extension to the work that you've already heard about. Sonya also works as a [00:36.460 --> 00:41.700] strategic advisor to leaders at health systems and digital solution companies to help them [00:41.700 --> 00:47.920] navigate technology and strategic decisions. Sonya, so glad that you could make the time [00:47.920 --> 00:52.240] to be here with us. Glad to be here. Thanks for having me. [00:52.240 --> 00:55.680] It's a pleasure. It's a pleasure. And look, we're going to have a lot of fun talking [00:55.680 --> 01:00.660] about the work that you personally are doing and that Avia, the service that Avia delivers [01:00.660 --> 01:06.480] to the network of providers and companies that you've established. But before we do, talk [01:06.480 --> 01:10.400] to us a little bit about you. What is it that inspires your work in health care? [01:10.400 --> 01:17.240] Yeah, it's a great question. I grew up in health care settings. So both my parents worked [01:17.240 --> 01:22.760] in medicine, dad was a doctor, a mom was a nurse, uncle's aunt, everybody worked in [01:22.760 --> 01:29.440] the hospital. So I grew up running around hospital floors and medical buildings. And [01:29.440 --> 01:34.760] so it's just a profession I've known in my family all my life. Of course, the question [01:34.760 --> 01:37.880] is, why didn't you become a doctor? So it's like, Oh my gosh, it's going to take forever [01:37.880 --> 01:43.200] to read all those books and go through medical school. But I did give you a GPT. [01:43.200 --> 01:49.160] Exactly. I still wanted to be connected to the industry. So I pursued a different path [01:49.160 --> 01:54.800] to end up more on the strategy and business administration consulting side of health care. [01:54.800 --> 01:59.320] And it's just one of those professions, having seen it personally, having seen the lives that [01:59.320 --> 02:04.000] have been touched by my own parents in the care that they provided that my broader family [02:04.000 --> 02:09.680] is provided and knowing that this is a profession that has mission attached to it. So almost [02:09.720 --> 02:15.680] every day you feel, well, you can trace the work that you do back to impact on society, [02:15.960 --> 02:21.640] back to impact on humankind. And I think that is so that is what sort of keeps me deeply [02:21.640 --> 02:26.960] connected to the work and keeps me inspired and passionate about continuing to do this [02:26.960 --> 02:31.560] work. And there's so many needs, right? And if we just look at the problems we have in [02:31.560 --> 02:36.840] health care, I've seen some of the work of health care in India where I grew up. And [02:36.840 --> 02:42.480] I've seen the last 20 years here in the US seeing the health care, US health care system, [02:42.480 --> 02:46.320] and knowing that the challenges we have. So we have a lot of work ahead of us. We need [02:46.320 --> 02:51.160] all the people who are doing this work to continue doing this to address some of those [02:51.160 --> 02:52.160] things. [02:52.160 --> 02:57.400] I love that Sonya. Yeah, it is true. I love the word to use traceable. And it's traceable [02:57.400 --> 03:03.080] to the impact we make the people to communities. It's global. I love somebody on the podcast [03:03.120 --> 03:08.240] a few months ago said health care is not a vertical is a horizontal. And it touches all [03:08.240 --> 03:13.320] the verticals, right? And that they said it so well, I'm just kind of stealing that that [03:13.320 --> 03:18.240] line because I love it. And your traceability thought is so key. It really is. And so thank [03:18.240 --> 03:22.960] you for sharing that. What for those that haven't heard about Avia, let's level set with them, [03:22.960 --> 03:27.400] right? I think it's a good opportunity for awareness on the organization. So talk to us [03:27.400 --> 03:30.680] about what Avia does and how you add value to the health care ecosystem. [03:31.520 --> 03:37.280] Yeah, the question and I was lucky enough to discover Avia almost six years ago and just [03:37.280 --> 03:43.720] so amazed by the mission, the work, the impact of Avia in the ecosystem. So think about Avia [03:43.720 --> 03:49.920] as a digital transformation partner to health systems. So we work with a network of health [03:49.920 --> 03:55.080] systems that are really committed to using digital as a strategic lever to advance their [03:55.080 --> 04:02.120] strategies. So at our core, we truly believe transformation is needed. We truly believe digital [04:02.160 --> 04:07.960] is what is going to create and accelerate that transformation in new and innovative ways. So [04:08.000 --> 04:12.040] obvious, there's two parts of the ecosystem, right? So there's health systems who need the [04:12.040 --> 04:17.600] digital transformation to be sustainable to scale, to serve their communities in a long [04:17.600 --> 04:23.480] way, long, long, sustainable way. And then there's the digital health companies who are [04:23.480 --> 04:28.640] looking to partner with those health systems to accelerate that work. So those are the two [04:28.640 --> 04:33.200] parts of the ecosystem on the health system side, which has been our work traditionally, [04:33.200 --> 04:37.680] we have spent so much time with the health systems in our network, growing them, really [04:37.680 --> 04:43.520] helping them navigate the digital transformation journey, whether that's identifying what should [04:43.520 --> 04:47.720] be the problems we're solving with digital, whereas that greatest opportunity, the why, the [04:47.720 --> 04:53.960] what and the how, right? So the business case for why should we act here? What are the types [04:53.960 --> 04:59.240] of results in the ROI? We will see we help people identify best for digital solutions. We take [04:59.240 --> 05:04.400] them through this long multi-year relationship. And we do this in a very collaborative way. So [05:04.400 --> 05:10.120] the essence of Avia is multiple health system leaders coming together to collaborate, share [05:10.120 --> 05:16.640] ideas, use the insights that Avia provides and lift all boats through that. So that's one [05:16.720 --> 05:21.440] side of the ecosystem, right? Health systems. We also believe that serving solution companies, [05:21.440 --> 05:26.280] a visual health companies that are looking to advance digital transformation and health [05:26.280 --> 05:31.360] care is part of our mission as well. So we work with them to help them understand, hey, [05:31.360 --> 05:35.680] if you're an online scheduling company, or if you're a virtual nursing company, if you're [05:35.680 --> 05:39.920] a remote monitoring company, help you understand what are the problems health systems are trying [05:39.920 --> 05:44.640] to solve? How are they navigating solving those problems? How do you fine tune your offering, [05:44.640 --> 05:49.600] your roadmap, your products, even your marketing language, so that it becomes more accessible and [05:49.600 --> 05:55.680] more appealing to health systems? So helping them grow faster, helping them fine tune their products [05:55.680 --> 06:01.920] and helping health systems as well navigate all the potential solutions, all the innovation that's [06:01.920 --> 06:07.040] happening in the industry and navigate them through that ecosystem. [06:07.040 --> 06:12.480] That's awesome, Sonia. Thank you for that recap. And is there a payer element to any of what you do? [06:12.480 --> 06:16.880] Is there a payer part of it? Or is it mainly health systems and companies? [06:17.760 --> 06:24.960] Not payer right now. We continue to explore other aspects of the ecosystem, but right now we're [06:24.960 --> 06:30.720] formally committed to health systems that are primary stakeholders. Got it. Okay, cool. No, [06:30.720 --> 06:35.200] thanks for sharing that. It's a great network, folks. If you've heard of them, you obviously [06:35.200 --> 06:39.600] know about them. But if you haven't, this is a great opportunity to be exposed to a phenomenal [06:39.680 --> 06:46.240] organization that is really just playing an important role as both curator and matchmaker [06:46.240 --> 06:52.640] of phenomenal insights and technologies to scale health care. And Sonia said it best. So certainly, [06:52.640 --> 06:57.280] I explore them. We'll leave notes in the show notes for you to access their website and Sonia. [06:57.280 --> 07:03.120] Okay, so what do you think that you guys do better than what's already out there, Sonia? [07:04.080 --> 07:09.600] Yeah, there's a range of solutions, as you think about, from your health system and looking to [07:10.560 --> 07:15.760] figure out digital, navigate digital. Other, there's companies that give you insights and [07:15.760 --> 07:20.880] intelligence and reports. You can know what are the companies out there. You can see market [07:20.880 --> 07:25.440] landscapes. And then there's companies that do just consulting, but then they come and go. They [07:25.440 --> 07:30.640] give you a great report, but then they're gone. So what's different about obvious is that we [07:30.640 --> 07:35.840] anchor on insights, not collating insights. And we have a lot of deep intelligence. That's [07:35.840 --> 07:40.880] the team that I lead on everything that's happening in the ecosystem, not just innovative companies, [07:40.880 --> 07:46.400] but also, where are the industries heading? What are the big moves you should be making? How should [07:46.400 --> 07:52.320] you be thinking innovatively? And those insights are very practical, so they can actually be applied [07:52.320 --> 07:58.960] very easily to any given situation. So we marry that with a long-term relationships with the anchoring [07:59.520 --> 08:06.480] in the business model of Avia is that it is a multi-year membership. So we don't just come and go, [08:06.480 --> 08:10.720] so we do provide consulting, but we're different from your traditional consulting form, where you [08:10.720 --> 08:16.160] don't come and then we leave you. We are actually there with you along for the ride. So it's a commitment [08:16.160 --> 08:21.920] to seeing that our recommendations are advised, the intelligence and insights we provide, [08:21.920 --> 08:26.960] can actually work in your environment. And if it doesn't, then we come back and we group and make [08:26.960 --> 08:33.520] sure and iterate on it to make sure it works. So I would say our market insights is what's different. [08:33.520 --> 08:38.880] We have subject matter experts who are looking at new spaces every day, going really deep in [08:38.880 --> 08:44.320] understanding the problems and where digital can solve this market insights. There's the long-term [08:44.320 --> 08:50.800] relationship aspect of our membership model. And I think those two combined makes us different. [08:50.800 --> 08:56.160] The other thing I would say is we are very committed for it, for all our recommendations and insights [08:56.160 --> 09:03.280] to be actionable. So we're not about the shiny object, we're not about that. And then we really [09:03.280 --> 09:10.000] take the idea of the economic viability of digital investments very seriously. So we've invested in a [09:10.000 --> 09:16.720] digital performance team that is really thinking about calculating impact about how do you build the [09:16.720 --> 09:21.200] ROI for digital investments, which is different from your typical investment. That's looking at [09:21.200 --> 09:27.360] different types of impact calculators and estimators. And these tools become really useful for health [09:27.360 --> 09:32.800] systems to advance to the next step. So yes, we've got all stakeholders all aligned on, [09:33.600 --> 09:38.400] we want to do this cool thing in digital, but then how do you actually convince the CFO? How do [09:38.400 --> 09:43.040] you convince the leadership team to make this investment? And then we can track the results of [09:43.040 --> 09:48.720] those investments over time to see, yes, here's the proof that this digital investment led you [09:48.720 --> 09:53.440] to this result. And that's part of how we provide value as well that's different. [09:53.440 --> 10:00.480] That's fantastic, Sonia. And folks, if you're on the health IT, SaaS, MedTech side, [10:00.480 --> 10:04.960] I'm sure a lot of the things that Sonia just said, you're probably like, oh my gosh, [10:04.960 --> 10:10.720] I'm dealing with that right now. Because it could be frustrating at times. And how do you actually [10:10.720 --> 10:17.840] put together a solution that both hits those market needs and could answer the questions of a strict [10:17.840 --> 10:24.000] CFO? Yeah, sure, you got the CIO maybe interested, but man, it's not getting past that CFO. [10:24.000 --> 10:29.920] So these things are the ones that really, if we don't figure out, hold us back. And Sonia, [10:29.920 --> 10:35.600] really appreciate you, you offering the value there because it is different. And if people, [10:35.600 --> 10:39.440] this is a question for later, but I'll just ask it now, if people want to reach out to you [10:40.000 --> 10:44.240] and find out more about how to engage as a company or health system, how do they do it? [10:44.960 --> 10:50.560] I think Avia helped our website. You can read just from there. We host a number of different [10:50.560 --> 10:55.680] events, webinars, and such that provide our access information. Of course, if you want to [10:55.680 --> 11:00.080] reach out to me on LinkedIn, it's Sonia Singh. I would love to hear from you as well. [11:00.080 --> 11:05.200] Love it. Love it. Thanks for the invite, folks. Take her up on it. It's about taking action and [11:05.200 --> 11:10.800] making things happen. Don't just sit on what you hear. Take action, get on the rocket. Okay, [11:10.800 --> 11:16.000] so Sonia, let's talk about biggest setbacks. What's one of the biggest one you've seen [11:16.000 --> 11:20.960] your experience and what learning has come out of that? Yeah, I thought a personal story, [11:20.960 --> 11:26.240] because I think this was a great learning from me in my own journey. So before Avia, [11:26.240 --> 11:31.520] I've done a lot of healthcare consulting for other firms and a lot of M&A work. [11:31.520 --> 11:36.320] So in one of the big M&A projects that I was leading says one health system taking over another, [11:36.800 --> 11:42.800] I was leading multiple work streams, had a big team running hard because in any M&A project, [11:42.800 --> 11:47.280] you got to meet some really big deadlines, and there's a lot of pressure and a lot of scrutiny [11:47.280 --> 11:51.200] and a lot of eyes on it. So I thought I was doing great. It's like you're running hard, [11:51.200 --> 11:54.800] you're making sure the projects are meeting timelines, you're coordinating amongst hundreds [11:54.800 --> 12:00.960] of people across multiple time zones. And then I started hearing from folks from the stakeholders [12:00.960 --> 12:06.880] involved as well as from my team. And finally, there was just this rumbling that was happening [12:06.880 --> 12:12.640] of dissatisfaction or just people drying their feet. And I was like, wait, what is happening? [12:12.640 --> 12:19.200] Our project plan is going to go off the reel. Yeah. And so finally, somebody took me aside, [12:19.200 --> 12:26.480] another senior leader there who was part of the transition. And share with me, which I so [12:26.480 --> 12:32.320] appreciate when people get feedback this way, is you have to realize that in the process, [12:33.040 --> 12:37.680] like I was focused on the process of getting stuff done, moving all this technology over, [12:37.680 --> 12:42.640] making sure we combine all the things that are very tech oriented, very process oriented. [12:42.640 --> 12:48.560] So you got to remember that these are people's everyday lives, the way they've done things, [12:48.560 --> 12:53.840] the teams that they were part of, and all of that is changing as part of this work. So [12:53.840 --> 12:59.360] suddenly they have new teams or part of their teams may no longer be there. The tech that they've [12:59.360 --> 13:03.600] been used to using, suddenly you are putting a new tech that they have to use that creates change [13:03.600 --> 13:08.960] for them. And it was just such a great learning of in all of the things that we do. You can execute [13:08.960 --> 13:16.960] strategies well, you can put in new technology well, but change and culture actually plays a [13:16.960 --> 13:21.360] really significant role. And it's not something you get put on a project plan as a line item, [13:21.360 --> 13:48.520] because it's one of those [13:48.680 --> 13:53.240] upskilling. Sometimes it's required that can be very scary for people with visual upskilling, [13:53.240 --> 13:57.800] and you hear all these discussions about AI either being very scary or very exciting to people, [13:57.800 --> 14:03.640] depending on their mindset. And then there's adaptive change too, just the work that I did, [14:03.640 --> 14:09.080] the people I worked with is going to be different. And are people ready for that? So the cultural [14:09.080 --> 14:13.960] change aspect. So even though it felt like I said back at that time, because suddenly it felt like [14:13.960 --> 14:18.360] the project was going to go off the rails and I couldn't understand why the biggest learning from me [14:18.360 --> 14:24.840] which I've carried on for so many years is you cannot underestimate or ignore the people, [14:24.840 --> 14:27.960] the culture, the change management aspect of any of our work. [14:28.520 --> 14:33.400] Totally. Yeah, that's a great learning, Sonia. And we often get tunnel vision, right? Like, [14:34.920 --> 14:40.360] you have a thing you have to do, and you get focused on that tunnel vision. And so what do you do? [14:40.360 --> 14:47.240] Like do you have a process for making sure you address this? Do you add it as a line item [14:47.240 --> 14:54.680] as a checkpoint? You do and you do that as a reminder to everybody that this is important. [14:54.680 --> 14:59.000] And then you have to be very intentional about it. It's not something where you just do a meeting [14:59.000 --> 15:03.960] and you tell, not just communicating once, that's a trick that sometimes you're to communicate [15:03.960 --> 15:09.240] many times in different ways, in different settings. Some people might need to hear it in a smaller [15:09.240 --> 15:16.760] group. Some people might need to hear it from the CEO, from a different person. So the who, the setting, [15:16.760 --> 15:21.640] all of that becomes really important. And training champions, right? We do this a lot in our work at [15:21.640 --> 15:29.400] ABA, particularly for things that impact clinical workflows, clinician staff. Like you take this work [15:29.400 --> 15:33.320] of online scheduling. We have been doing that at ABA for many years. Almost every health system [15:33.320 --> 15:38.280] has this challenge of online scheduling. But really, it's more, and it makes so much sense, [15:38.280 --> 15:42.280] right? Like consumers want to do online scheduling. Let's help themselves service. [15:42.840 --> 15:47.720] But you have to remember that it's creating change from a physician autonomy standpoint. [15:48.600 --> 15:52.040] And that's where things get stuck. So how do you create champions [15:52.680 --> 15:57.560] amongst the physician's offices that are being affected to do something like online scheduling? [15:57.560 --> 16:03.800] And then you can apply that to everything else that you see. What is the communication, [16:04.360 --> 16:08.440] the champions, the culture, the change management, and so much of it is leadership. [16:09.160 --> 16:18.360] Like you have to have really great leaders who can understand, empathize, and communicate with [16:18.360 --> 16:24.280] their teams broadly on this. Awesome. Thank you for that, Sonya. Great tips there on that piece. [16:24.280 --> 16:29.720] Don't forget about the people. The change piece is difficult. It could derail your project. [16:29.720 --> 16:36.040] Like it could derail your implementation. And it's never good from a provider or a company [16:36.120 --> 16:41.560] perspective. So I think that message is to both. So thank you for that, Sonya. [16:41.560 --> 16:46.200] There's a lot changing. And there's talk of different technologies, different trends, [16:46.200 --> 16:53.240] which in your opinion, out there, tech trends and the technology has the opportunity to change [16:53.240 --> 16:58.360] healthcare as we know it. There's a few. And this is my work. I'm constantly scanning the environment [16:58.360 --> 17:03.720] for signals and looking at trends and really thinking about what is a combination of trends that will [17:03.720 --> 17:09.720] create big transformational shifts. So when I look at the world today, I see a few different [17:09.720 --> 17:16.440] things happening. One is, this is like really interesting new technology that allows us to [17:16.440 --> 17:22.600] deliver care or connect with people in different ways. You just take ambient technology, right? [17:22.600 --> 17:27.800] Whether that's ambient voice technology, do enable clinical documentation or ambient technology, [17:28.440 --> 17:35.160] monitor people in the patient rooms or at home. Now, and add that AI or an intelligence layer to [17:35.160 --> 17:41.800] it so you can remove all the false positives and you actually just get real good data to know exactly [17:41.800 --> 17:47.160] when things are going wrong and provide some of those predictive risks as well. There's new [17:47.160 --> 17:53.240] technology that is treating a lot of new possibilities. Of course, AI, there's just so much potential [17:53.320 --> 17:58.120] to completely modernize the health system infrastructure as well as all the clinical [17:58.120 --> 18:02.760] applications that I think will be a few years out. But that will see so much change in just how [18:03.960 --> 18:12.120] care can be accessed delivered. I also think a lot about the ecosystem changes. So there's [18:12.120 --> 18:18.120] technology driven changes. There's also ecosystem and business model changes. So we're seeing all [18:18.120 --> 18:25.160] kinds of new players, whether that's Amazon, of course, providing the $9 per month prime offering [18:25.160 --> 18:32.440] for various sort of niche specialty care players that provide really digitally enabled integrated [18:32.440 --> 18:39.080] care that can extend care for hospital systems who may not be able to create access into rural [18:39.080 --> 18:45.480] areas, underserved areas. So these new partnerships and new innovative players that are coming up in [18:45.560 --> 18:50.520] the market, I see that as a really promising new trend as well. The question of course for health [18:50.520 --> 18:57.640] systems will be how do you harness it? Is there just ignoring it? How do you take advantage of what [18:57.640 --> 19:04.920] is now being offered to extend care, to create, enter new markets, to create new products and [19:04.920 --> 19:12.520] services, to diversify your revenue? I think all of those will change the ecosystem as we know it. [19:12.520 --> 19:17.720] So in that in addition to some of the new tech, any AI, I think all of that feels very promising. [19:17.720 --> 19:23.000] Love that. Yeah, some great call outs there, Sonia, and things that we should be thinking about. [19:23.000 --> 19:28.520] Look, what an incredible conversation. I really thank you for jumping on the podcast with us today [19:28.520 --> 19:34.040] to share what you do at ABIA with insights and market intelligence, as well as what ABIA does as [19:34.040 --> 19:39.480] a whole as a network to help facilitate digital transformation in healthcare. [19:39.480 --> 19:42.760] Leave us with the closing thoughts, Sonia. What do you want to leave us with? [19:42.760 --> 19:45.720] And what's the best place listeners could get in touch with you? [19:45.720 --> 19:52.520] Yeah, I, maybe the closing part of it here is it's been a time when, let's see, if I look at the last [19:53.240 --> 19:57.480] few years, it feels like it's been a really challenging time for health systems, right? You're [19:57.480 --> 20:03.560] like, it's one thing after the other. It was COVID, it was the workforce, burnout, [20:03.640 --> 20:09.240] it's the work for shortage, it's just the affordability crisis. It feels like there's so [20:09.240 --> 20:16.600] much coming at you. I would love for us to shift our attention to all the possibilities that are now [20:17.480 --> 20:23.640] available to us with the new technology. This is an expansion of how people think about virtual [20:23.640 --> 20:30.120] care, consumers thinking about healthcare differently, these new partnerships. So let's harness those [20:30.120 --> 20:35.880] and then to get in touch with us, we always love to hear from innovative solutions. If you are a [20:35.880 --> 20:40.440] digital health company, you're doing something you think is a great market for your product, [20:40.440 --> 20:44.680] we would love to hear from you so that we can tell the health systems in our network about it. [20:44.680 --> 20:49.400] And if you're a health system or somebody works at a health system who wants the tools, [20:49.400 --> 20:55.960] the insights, the support to navigate healthcare, navigate digital in healthcare, [20:55.960 --> 21:02.360] we would love to hear from you as well. Again, our website, Avia Health, or reach out to us on [21:02.360 --> 21:07.720] LinkedIn. Amazing, Sonia. Thank you so much. Folks, take advantage of getting in touch with Sonya [21:07.720 --> 21:13.640] and the Avia team. It really doesn't make sense for you to do all the stuff on your own when you [21:13.640 --> 21:20.280] have somebody like Avia that's way ahead of it. This beauty of hiring experts to help you fast-track [21:20.280 --> 21:26.120] what you want in your strategy. And it just makes sense. So look, Sonia, I really appreciate [21:26.120 --> 21:31.800] you jumping on. I'm grateful for you. And folks, make sure you check out the show notes with all of [21:31.800 --> 21:37.080] the resources that we discussed, links to get in touch with Sonia, Avia. They'll all be there. [21:37.080 --> 21:41.320] So thanks for tuning in. Take action on what you heard today, and Sonia, just once again, [21:41.320 --> 21:52.920] thank you so much for being with us. Thank you, Sal. Transcription results written to '/home/forge/transcribe2.sonicengage.com/releases/20240207164437' directory