How to Actually Achieve Success With The Help of A Mentor with Dr. Mike Horne, a seasoned HR and organizational development leader

[00:00:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Outcomes Rocket. I'm so excited to have you all join us again. Today, I have the privilege of having a very interesting guest, an incredible person, Dr. Mike Horne. He is a highly experienced global corporate human resources and organizational development leader, distinguished executive coach, bestselling author, and sought-after speaker. How he does it all, I'm not sure.

[00:00:29] [SPEAKER_00]: He's dedicated to empowering aspiring leaders like you, executives, and teams to navigate transitions, excel in new roles, and increase their effectiveness and influence. I don't know about you guys, but those topics are hot, and I could always use tips on it. So I'm excited to have Mike share his tips and tricks for all you to level up your game. Mike, welcome to the podcast.

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, Saul. Thank you so much. I've been looking forward to this. I'm so excited about the topics that you discuss on Outcomes Rocket. I really want to connect on these topics and with your audience in healthcare and see what we can do to make a difference or continue to make a difference.

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I love it. Let's make it happen. So to begin with, Mike, you know, a lot of the conversations I've been having are really focused around making a difference, but also the founder story. So I'd love to just ask you about what got you started in the business that you're in and why did you decide to be an entrepreneur?

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think it was way back when, probably as a teenager, if I sort of really trace the origins of my story, I worked a lot with the United Farm Workers Union as a teenager, which had the opportunity to work with Cesar Chavez and Dolores.

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, did you really? That's pretty awesome.

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. Yeah, it was pretty awesome. You know, manning picket lines during the lettuce boycotts. So I think that gave me a sense of service and wanting to serve and be of assistance in some way. It also helped me to understand conflict when people were in conflict with one another. In that case, labor organization and big grocery store chains.

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_01]: So I went into labor relations. I mean, that's where I first started my professional journey, then became a Peace Corps volunteer because I think it was out of that sort of service world and was a volunteer in the Solomon Islands.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_01]: But after starting a career and launching a career in labor relations on the employer side, I realized that I didn't want to spend my lifetime engaged in, you know, these diametrically opposed conflicts with people. I even did a lot of study.

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I took some certificate courses at Temple University in Philadelphia in healthcare labor relations because that was a big topic at the time. But eventually I drifted into organization development, organization consulting, work for some big global giant consulting firms, eventually led organization development, learning and development practices in some significant corporations like Marriott International, Roche Pharmaceuticals.

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I define myself in three ways. And it's really what's been consistent throughout my career. Coach, teacher, mentor. Those are the things that I do. And today I lead a program at Golden Gate University in San Francisco, leading the HR and leadership studies programs. I've got an active consulting practice helping leaders with the challenges and problems that they have really towards how do we bring our best to every situation. That's a little bit of the story, the saga, the journey.

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I love it. No, that's great. I love it. No, that's great. Very impressed with sort of the origin story. I got goosebumps when you told me you were with Cesar Chavez.

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah. That'll make an impression on you.

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_01]: It certainly will.

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't make an impression on you. I can't imagine the things that you saw, the things that you were part of, the tensions. And so that has created tough skin and experience that I think a lot of the leaders and founders listening to this podcast could benefit from.

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Cesar wasn't a very big man, you know, he was, I'd say, diminutive in size, but he had a larger than life presence. That's for sure.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Amazing. Yeah, no. And it's that's what it's about. So how can the listeners of our podcast develop that larger than life presence?

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Help us understand, you know, how you help leaders and help them do what they do in the health care ecosystem.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, my last book was Integrity by Design, Working and Living Authentically. And it's this ability to connect, to engage, to bring your whole self to work.

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think the way that people do that, that the way that we condition ourselves to do that is to start by trusting people.

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't mean like earning trust or gaining trust, but it's being confident in your own shoes, understanding who you are, what makes you tick, what your biases are, what your values are.

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_01]: So really getting comfortable in your own shoes is a place, I think, for all leaders to start and hopefully for everyone engaged in organizational life.

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, what I always tell people is that all of us or most of us in the United States have experience with organizations because most people are born in hospital settings.

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And each hospital has their own set of rules, their own set of policies, their own set of procedures that define a birth experience.

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's from the earliest moments in life for most people in the United States that we have experience with organizations.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, our challenge since organizations are so ubiquitous is how do we make them better places for people to express themselves?

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I love that. And so all the things that you mentioned are things, Mike, that we all should be solid on.

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_00]: But for the folks that aren't, what's the best way to like achieve it?

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, is it journaling? Is it what advice do you give for that? Is it getting a coach like you?

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, a coaching journey will always help, I think, at least as I reflect on my own career, as I listen to what my clients say,

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_01]: they benefit from the work of having a guide on a learning journey.

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I think the biggest thing is if you want to engage in some sort of self-improvement.

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I work primarily with CEOs, founders, VPs, people who are aspiring to the C-suite.

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_01]: It's so important to have a goal in mind rather than, you know, a general be better.

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_01]: But to know what's sort of not sitting well with you and where could you engage in having a goal that you could seek some improvement.

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I also end up dealing with a lot of people at midlife or later in life, you know, people who are in their 50s.

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_01]: They've built very successful careers.

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_01]: They're technically expert and they've risen to a certain level in the organization.

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_01]: But there's often, you know, they don't have anyone to tell them the truth anymore.

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_01]: So I think, you know, having someone that you can trust, someone that you can confide in, someone who will challenge some of your assumptions can be very useful in terms of bringing more of who you are to what you do and getting the most from the people around you.

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And I love that.

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for sharing that.

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And for your style of things, because there's a lot of coaches out there, right?

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_01]: There's the barriers to entry are very, very low.

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, all you got to do is put a website up.

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_00]: You don't even need that.

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_00]: You don't even need that.

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Go get a Gmail.

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So talk to us about your style.

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, number one, you've done your research.

[00:07:38] [SPEAKER_00]: You've got a PhD background.

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you could share what that background is about.

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And then help us understand, you know, what is it that you do different or unique that people can benefit from?

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, I guess I'm credentialed.

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I do have a doctorate in organization development.

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_01]: My mentor, one of my mentors was asked to describe his life in six words.

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And he said, I fix people, teams and organizations.

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'd like to think a little bit about that.

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, sort of coming out of a tradition of humanism and humanistic values and management.

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I believe that one of the things that distinguishes me from a lot of others is my ability to listen.

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_01]: One of the greats in sort of humanistic management said that the reason he could charge people a lot of money for his services was because he listened really well.

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And that he might be able to offer them one good idea.

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Nice.

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I hope to do that, maybe offer more than one good idea to folks during an engagement.

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, listen, I've got a lot of coaching credentials.

[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I've, you know, I studied with Bob Keegan and Lisa Leahy at Harvard Graduate School of Education on the immunity to change.

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_01]: So I think I understand a little bit about, you know, why, despite our best intentions and our strong convictions about changing, why we don't and why it's so difficult, particularly in midlife or later, to change, to fight our immunity to change.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I've did some work last year on positive intelligence coaching and bring those sets of skills.

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_01]: But I think the reason, you know, one of the reasons, Saul, that I engage with clients is I really work on three things.

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_01]: People, you know, ask people to describe me.

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_01]: They'll say Mike is calm, he's confident, and he's confident.

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I work with that in my coaching and consulting practices.

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I love that.

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, it's those nuances in thinking that can help all of us.

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you're stuck on a particular thing that you've been trying to change in your business.

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Oftentimes, those business problems actually are the symptom of personal things that we have to do.

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I've had the benefit of working with a coach for many years, and that coach relationship really does help provide insights that oftentimes, let me tell you guys and gals, you're the bottleneck.

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_00]: You're the reason your business isn't working.

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_00]: You want to comment on that?

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, most of the people that I deal with, I would describe are in some sort of transition.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_01]: They're in a current state and they want to move to a future state.

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's, you know, they've had some feedback from the board that things aren't going so well, or they've had enough feedback from coworkers or someone in their personal sphere that says, you know, you may be really smart and you may be the boss of the table, but you certainly don't have very good EQ or very good emotional intelligence.

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's so important to be able to listen.

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Look, people I deal with are successful people.

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they've achieved some pinnacle of success.

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And what I know about successful people is that they continue to want to do better.

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And figuring that out can be very helpful.

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, if you don't, I mean, reach a certain level of arrogance and you don't care.

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And boy, that's no, it's no fun to be around those people who want to be able to tell you, shut up and listen to me because I know everything there is to know if I'm being around those people.

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I totally agree.

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I love that, you know, you highlighted it's those transition moments that really tend to be those trying times for the people that you work with.

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Tell us about one of your biggest setbacks.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_00]: What's been one of those that you've learned so much from that now makes you an amazing coach, Mike?

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, thank you for labeling me as amazing.

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I just learned in the California Gazette, it's a newspaper that's published.

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I've been named one of the 12 most influential executive coaches in California.

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm right up there with Marshall Goldsmith and Tony Robbins and some others.

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I think in terms of setbacks, I always think about not being able to do something at its best.

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I recall recently, the last couple of years, one client situation that did not work out well.

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Probably did.

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think about what I did to contribute to that.

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And it was, in many senses, not having a clear contract, not having a clear agreement with the client about what services were.

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's so important if you're in healthcare, if you're in some other thing, is to really understand what the social contract is that you have with someone.

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_01]: What is it that you want to achieve?

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_01]: What are the outcomes?

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So not getting clear on contracting right up front and not coming back to revisit that can be really detrimental and create a big setback.

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's having the courage.

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_01]: It's having the fortitude.

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_01]: It's having the tenacity to keep coming back to what's true.

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And all of that begins with a clear set of your values.

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_01]: So for me, I'm really clear on respect, respecting individuals.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's just so key to what we do.

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I believe in acknowledging that most people are in some sort of process of development.

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what happened to most of my clients five minutes before they meet me or five minutes after they leave me.

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, what I want to do is be present with them and to bring a couple of things to every situation.

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_01]: So to bring this sense of presence, to bring a sense of hope that things can be different and to help people figure out what's work here and what's not work.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_01]: What can we leave aside and what's really important to focus on?

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_01]: So I think staying true to those, living out these values of humanism, respect, dignity, understanding the value in people.

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of organizational leaders and very few have voiced it to me, but they would say to me if they were talking out loud that if they could figure out a way to make money without people, they would.

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Because people can't be difficult and challenging.

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_01]: But at the heart of every human enterprise are people.

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Can't do it without people.

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Can't do it without people.

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_00]: No, I love it.

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And what would you say one of your proudest coaching moments is?

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I always love it, of course, when clients high five around the table.

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And I could think of many instances.

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_01]: One that I recall is I was working with the leadership team of one of the biggest companies in their sector on the planet.

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I worked a lot on helping them think through their strategy, their work as a team.

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Certainly that makes me very proud.

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And then to see that strategy in place of going really doubling in size, how this organization has doubled in size.

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I think about the accomplishments with certain individuals who are able to continue to climb a corporate ladder to get satisfied with where they are in terms of their career.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think you learn from those situations.

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I think you learn from those situations.

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I encourage viewers, listeners to visit me at MikeGashvorn.com.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And I would leave a thought that look out for my new book probably in October, The People Dividend, Leadership Strategies for Unlocking Potential.

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And in the meantime, there are lots of great resources.

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I encourage on the MikeGashvorn.com website to visit there and plenty of ways to get in touch with me there as well.

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's outstanding, Mike.

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I want to thank you for that and also want to give you a chance to plug your podcast.

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_00]: So guys, if you want to learn besides the website, Mike also has a podcast.

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So Mike, tell us about that.

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_01]: The current podcast for just entering season seven.

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_01]: We've got a great lineup of guests and ranked in the top 10% of global podcasts.

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I just saw it's on somebody's list of like top 200 business podcasts.

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_01]: It's The People Dividend.

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Nice.

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_01]: So really concentrating on one theme here, everyone.

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_01]: The People Dividend.

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Give results with people.

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_00]: So just like your book.

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_00]: It's just like the book.

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_00]: The People Dividend.

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Folks, check that out on your podcast platform.

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_00]: We'll also hook it up in the show notes.

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_00]: So make sure you take a look in the show notes so that everybody listening can listen to that.

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And keep your eyes open for that fall timeframe for Mike's book.

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_00]: You'll want to make sure you pick that one up too.

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Mike, this has been a pleasure.

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for spending time with Outcomes Rocket and all of our viewers and listeners.

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And can't wait to see you again soon.

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Saul, thank you.

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_01]: You're the best.

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_01]: You and Outcome Rocket are just the best.

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.