How to Hire and Keep Top Sales Talent in Medtech with Rob Brown, Chief Commercial Officer at Bolt Navigation

[00:00:00] . Hey everybody, welcome back to the podcast. We are doing this incredible series on

[00:00:08] Metek sales success and today I have the privilege of having Rob Brown on the podcast with

[00:00:15] us. He's a 30 year veteran of the Metek industry. Rob's journey began at J&J's Ethicon and

[00:00:22] evolved as he took on pivotal roles at companies like Appetek and Ambadi. Today he spearheads

[00:00:29] innovation at Bolt Navigation, revolutionizing surgical precision without complexity. His remarkable

[00:00:36] career from the entrepreneurial spirit at the Pucin Thes to his current mission to democratize

[00:00:42] surgical navigation worldwide is really inspiring and so with that I want to welcome Rob to the

[00:00:47] podcast. Thanks so much for joining us. Great thank you, Saul and thank you for the intro. I think

[00:00:52] you give me a good framework to start. So I can I guess I can start with elaborating a little bit

[00:00:59] more on what's gotten me to where I'm at right now in my career and then also and just how that

[00:01:05] we've sent to Bolt as you mentioned 30 years in Metek. Yes, I started when I was 10.

[00:01:12] Been around a little while and I've been both part of I'll say big and small public and private

[00:01:18] companies and I've as you mentioned I started my career, my formative part of my career was at J

[00:01:24] and I actually moved into orthopedics when what's now known as the headquarters for Depeux

[00:01:30] Enthes and right now I moved into Port-Claude Pitch and that was built in 1990 and since then

[00:01:35] I'll say that early stage I held notable roles in everything from operations through advanced

[00:01:41] development through marketing within orthopedics and at the time I'll just put in reference for folks

[00:01:46] because everybody thinks of the large Metek companies and at the time J and J are pedics

[00:01:50] was 142 people when the doors were open so it fell very entrepreneurial and I think that's

[00:01:57] also something that's carried forward with me through my career and whether it's been again

[00:02:02] big company, small company. It was really that entrepreneurial spirit that was really the start

[00:02:07] of my career and I've also been very fortunate to be part of some great teams, great companies.

[00:02:13] You mentioned Appetek. Appetek we, one of the first synthetic bone graft substitutes in the

[00:02:18] market. We took that up through an exit and sold that to Baxter for 330 million. You mentioned

[00:02:24] in body and body was just prior to my current role at Bolt. I joined in body when it was five

[00:02:30] scientists in a lab in Norfolk, Virginia doing some really cool things with collagen

[00:02:36] and quite frankly we were able to take that all the way through product creation, commercialization

[00:02:42] and ultimately to a sale on an exit. Jess last year it is in Rabinat for a deal valued at 75 million

[00:02:49] so they're really fortunate to learn and evolve and adapt going through that process and that's

[00:02:55] sometimes I'll refer to a little bit of rinse repeat, it's not that simple every time you need

[00:03:00] to adjust and that's really what I'm doing right now at Bolt. We're building a we've got a great

[00:03:06] very novel disruptive technology for surgical navigation. We're doing something that's

[00:03:11] unconventional where we're using a handheld iOS based device to do image guided navigation

[00:03:17] and our initial product is for spine it's for the navigation and placement of pedical screws.

[00:03:23] The largely technologies have been large CT robotic navigation systems will say multi-million dollar

[00:03:29] systems, cost-lead, complex those kind of things so we've taken a very different approach where

[00:03:36] it's for us we're looking to create access for inventory surgery centers, hustles around the

[00:03:41] world. We are costing complexity up in the big barriers but they don't want to compromise on the

[00:03:45] ability to increase accuracy, reduce radiation and things that will benefit ultimately the

[00:03:52] surgeons, the patients and everybody in that whole value stream. And right now building I'm doing

[00:03:57] exactly what we're talking about I'm building a new commercial team for Bolt so I see being the

[00:04:04] first commercial employee about a year ago in that process. So hiring is real selecting the team

[00:04:10] is real this is real time for me. Now I love it Rob thank you for that and Kudo is on this

[00:04:17] repeat performance right you find the winners and then you engage early on and then the sale of

[00:04:23] the company and on today's episode how to hire and keep top sales talent in Metek is something that's

[00:04:29] top of mind for a lot of leaders so love the context and we'll love to dive in. When you look

[00:04:36] for teams and you've been through this many times what qualities do you look for in a candidate at

[00:04:41] a startup? I'd say I'd say two and I think they're I think they're linked it's resourcefulness and

[00:04:47] resilience and I would say and it took a little time to really hone it down to be that specific because

[00:04:54] haven't always gotten it right but I think though resiliency is not something that I believe can be

[00:05:00] taught it's you either have it or you don't it's really important to find people who are comfort I like

[00:05:04] to say and those that have worked for me and always ask what could they be doing more of? It's

[00:05:10] generally around being comfortable with discomfort right because at an early stage you have to be

[00:05:15] comfortable with adversity things are going to change and you're going to have surprises some are

[00:05:19] going to be really good ones some are going to be set back so this level of resiliency I think

[00:05:24] is really important and also how that couples with resourcefulness at I'd say the larger companies I

[00:05:30] think you often have people to the left and to the right you've got organizations to the left

[00:05:35] and to the right you've got a lot of resources at your disposal right but at an early stage company

[00:05:41] like Bolt at a startup you've got to find a way sometimes and you wake up that day and you just

[00:05:47] simply don't know how you're going to whether it's get into it find a connection to a new surgeon

[00:05:53] or find a pathway into a hospital whatever that challenge is there they you got to be resourceful

[00:05:59] you got to reach out and that's the open transparent and having that ability I think those

[00:06:04] tend to be very resourceful also tend to be really good at handling adversity and then ultimately

[00:06:12] become very resilient that's great and oftentimes really love those two by the way and

[00:06:19] two qualities that I value very deeply as well do you how do you measure that just through talking

[00:06:26] and behavioral based questions any tests like the gallup raining like that it in terms of that

[00:06:31] decision making process on very much about very specific behavioral examples I think that's

[00:06:38] most that have interviewed with me and anybody that maybe interviewed with me in the future I'm

[00:06:42] probably going to give them a I'm now tipping my hat and giving a little clue what to expect you

[00:06:46] know I will generally there's there's a couple of questions I ask almost every candidate and

[00:06:51] I've asked almost every candidate for probably the past 10 years in building some teams but I really

[00:06:56] want those specific examples and whether it's around success or it's around something they thought

[00:07:02] was a great idea or ultimately something they really championed and they needed to influence

[00:07:07] others I'm looking for those examples and then in all of their season judgment they get to look

[00:07:12] back on that and go that was a really bad idea and that's one I like to it there's a lot there's a

[00:07:18] lot of ways to peel that one back understand well who do you need to influence what were some of

[00:07:23] the barriers you're in into how to resolve that ultimately if it was a failure what happened to

[00:07:29] those relationships along the way it could have been something as simply as making making a bad

[00:07:34] recommendation to research in the OR or it could be much more complex where it was championing

[00:07:39] entirely new business concept all the way up to leadership and usually in those instances there's

[00:07:44] a lot to to learn from but that's I'd say my favorite example of really understanding first-hand

[00:07:53] resiliency and resourcefulness because that and I will talk there are folks that will say oh

[00:07:59] I've never had a failure I have a bunch of them and I think part of it is we learn the most

[00:08:04] and that's a really a part that level of candor that self-awareness those are all the things that

[00:08:10] I say those couple of questions really get at that's awesome okay so we talked about the startup

[00:08:16] what about more established organizations is there a difference you look for a different profile

[00:08:22] I do I'd say the more established mid-tech companies generally rely or you can be a little more

[00:08:28] one-dimensional again because there's it's not just the people it's a processes it's a system

[00:08:33] and it particularly mid-tech it can be very relationship centric in terms of relationship selling

[00:08:39] at the start up though you need you absolutely need to be multi-dimensional and by that I mean

[00:08:45] it's one thing to be able to build and nurture relationship it's another thing to continually go

[00:08:51] and create new relationships find those once you found that relationship it's navigating the pathway

[00:08:57] to turning that relationship into a meaningfully long-standing I'll say mutually business beneficial

[00:09:04] relationship those are things that I think require a different level of leadership but also

[00:09:11] that goes all the way down to literally for a sales rep walking into the first time they're

[00:09:16] getting in front of a surgeon they need to really understand the relationship may have gotten

[00:09:21] in the door but they need to at that point they need to really find the best pathway

[00:09:26] that they can take something that is unconventional and open that dialogue up to a surgeon

[00:09:32] and take them down that pathway so the surgeon can really understand and see the value

[00:09:38] in something that's dramatically different than something they've really been exposed to previously.

[00:09:44] Love that such great examples and back to the question that I asked you earlier Rob data how do you

[00:09:50] use data to make hiring decisions? Yeah I think well for me it starts with really making sure you

[00:09:56] aboutlined a solid profile of what you're looking for in a candidate and whether you're using a recruiter

[00:10:02] whether you're going through your referral network it's important to be I'll say very clear on

[00:10:07] what that right profile is and also it's just as important to identify

[00:10:12] what the wrong profile is as we just talked about a little bit you can clean insights pretty quick

[00:10:18] in a resume even how whether someone's one-dimensional or not. I'm also good at from a data perspective

[00:10:24] I'm going to look at that resume I think I look for patterns we all do right and there's some

[00:10:29] there's always telling patterns those patterns in some cases you want to just open up that dialogue

[00:10:35] and understand what led to some of those changes some of the patterns you look for is a lot of frequent

[00:10:40] changes we'll say and listen I always look for somebody that's got startup experience so we know

[00:10:46] there's often good reasons but there's also things in why I say patterns so there's also things

[00:10:51] that you might see where there might have been a pattern of someone leaving a very high growth

[00:10:58] successful company after a year two years but really just before it's growth and inflection point

[00:11:04] that's to me that's a pattern I'm going to probably frame a discussion around to really understand

[00:11:10] that and then also you look for career progression somebody's been at a larger organization

[00:11:14] have they taken on different responsibilities have they been put in situations that are just I'll

[00:11:20] say very much adjacent to what they're doing or it is it just a continuum of what they've been

[00:11:24] doing again those are good indicators that will open up a discussion for me to have around

[00:11:30] somebody's been a large organization established organization for a long time let me really

[00:11:35] understand how well suited they are to making the switch to a startup because so I'll tell you one

[00:11:42] thing I heard over and over and over again from candidates is always hey I want to make the change

[00:11:48] because I want to see my impact on the bottom line and that's a stable where I really want you

[00:11:53] to a lot of questions understand because that impact on the bottom line is one thing but it's the

[00:11:58] impact on your colleagues it's we're all in this together if we're not successful right there's

[00:12:03] there is no bottom line right so there's a lot of things that you want to really get at and it will

[00:12:09] go back to I'm just really trying to understand how well suited this person is around their

[00:12:14] resourcefulness and their resiliency of it thank you for that Rob and great notes for everybody

[00:12:20] listening a couple things that to think about on your hiring practice maybe your sales rep looking

[00:12:26] to get a new job and the conversation here with Rob might inspire you to take a look at your

[00:12:33] approach and think about what you're doing in your career so now that we have people in the door

[00:12:39] they start the job what are you doing to help your new hires be successful I think I look to start

[00:12:46] the success of a new hire before they've ever started it's in the interview process I think that's

[00:12:52] it's so important for me and for the candidate but it's important for me to be really transparent

[00:12:58] about what it's going to look like the day they walk in and I think that's in being transparent

[00:13:05] around opportunities but more so also the challenges and that lets them really frame in their own

[00:13:10] picture that's important because it's around fit and we really want the great fit and I don't want

[00:13:16] them to try to convince themselves that's a good fit right and sometimes only they know whether or

[00:13:23] not it's a good fit professionally or sometimes whether it's a good fit personally it could be

[00:13:28] level of travel involved the lack of predictability sometimes in our schedule when you're all hands

[00:13:33] on deck that it requires a certain level of flexibility those are things I will definitely have those

[00:13:40] conversations early on it does two things helps the candidate who's really astute go through the

[00:13:45] process fairly seamlessly and then for others it may prompt them to kick a step back say you know what

[00:13:51] this may not be a right fit for them that's okay I would rather someone off-doubt of a process

[00:13:57] the hiring process early because they're just it might not be the right point in time whatever it is

[00:14:03] they're always good reasons I'm completely okay with that I'm not looking to convince anybody

[00:14:08] and I'd rather find that out before it's like rather finding out really than 90 days in and somebody

[00:14:14] is having difficulty just balancing we'll call it the work life balance or just we've all seen it

[00:14:20] then I'd say from that point on I'd say continue to paint that picture success really be open

[00:14:26] transparent all the way through I'll say every week I have a roundtable with my team I'm usually

[00:14:33] around rigor and and agenda is another thing but for the roundtable I don't have an agenda it's

[00:14:37] on a Friday and and the goal of that is for everybody to share their wins and it's wins and losses

[00:14:44] basically share their wins but also share their challenges that they face all of us can help folks

[00:14:50] through what challenges are facing this way they're not this is tough some days and what's tough

[00:14:56] a lot of days and I like them to go into the weekend with a really clear mindset that they feel

[00:15:01] really well supported that we've been celebrating their successes but also that we're kind of

[00:15:05] we together are helping each other through all those challenges and then I'd add one more

[00:15:12] invest in them not just in in compensation but invest in things that are going to help them

[00:15:17] make them better more efficient more effective one of the tools I've talked about in the past and

[00:15:21] all is it is a Q&MD a Q&MD I've now used across this two companies I started working with them

[00:15:27] with the body really early on when a Q&MD was early stage and now working with them both those

[00:15:33] are tools that I will tell you folks coming into a small company like bolts or even previously

[00:15:40] embodied they're just they're an average with the capability of tools that they haven't even had

[00:15:45] it some larger companies that allow them to more efficiently more effectively identify target quantify

[00:15:54] opportunities in the tech space so those are some of the things that day one kind of put in place

[00:16:00] that's awesome thank you for that Rob and yeah and it's hard to imagine for sure and you got

[00:16:05] a software like a Q&MD like well how different can it be or it's a CRM but really I also had a

[00:16:12] chance to look at the demo and it's a difference between a flip phone that nobody wants

[00:16:18] a traditional CRM and a beautiful iPhone or pixel you name it right it's smart yeah

[00:16:25] well and one thing I the five people looked at one thing I really appreciate and recognize

[00:16:31] and and applaud actually is everything we've been talking about hiring for startup all the challenges

[00:16:36] of a startup being able to listen to the market listen to your customer adapt a Q&D does that really

[00:16:42] I've been able to go through this evolution with with their technology as it's been evolving as my

[00:16:47] needs evolve they listen they adapt they I'll say I'm very quick to dive in and embrace any new

[00:16:54] potential technologies and they reach out though that's their very market focused their very customer

[00:16:59] focus so for me that's helping me be a better leader by giving my team better tools

[00:17:07] of it that's great and how about under recruiting side is there are there any strategies that you

[00:17:12] found particularly successful well look for that good fit the two strategies I think if I think

[00:17:18] you got to look for if whether you use in a recruiter right that's the obvious one right go through

[00:17:22] a recruiter find them I take find a recruiter that there is you have a good fit if you don't have a

[00:17:27] good fit and then recruit doesn't have a good fit with you you're not going to find can I set

[00:17:31] out the right fit I've before chant that I've worked with some recruiters that really understand

[00:17:36] the market understand more importantly the stage in which we're at as a company and everything

[00:17:42] we've talked about so far around the resiliency around the resourcefulness they really internalize

[00:17:49] and understand how important that is for us as a company and I think it had just a much higher

[00:17:55] probability that the people that they're going to reach out to and the people that they're going

[00:17:59] to put in front of you is going to be of a much much higher likelihood that they're fit and then I

[00:18:05] would say you it's the obvious one but one that's proved really beneficial for me as usual network

[00:18:11] when I say started we start out with that really good profile if I've got a really good profile

[00:18:16] I'm gonna reach out to my network and I'm just gonna ask do you know of anyone like this and oh by

[00:18:21] the way here's some of the companies that have culture similar to what we're looking to create and

[00:18:27] do you know of anybody from those companies and I could pretty successful with that over the past

[00:18:32] the past several companies that's great Rob thank you for that and I love your your win loss call

[00:18:38] the fact that it doesn't have a structure other than win loss really adds to the creativity

[00:18:44] and the stuff that comes up and so let's hone in on the loss the mistakes we learn more from those

[00:18:50] so here's a little win loss call right here let's talk about mistakes man like the mistakes you've

[00:18:57] made or you've seen others make when it comes to hiring sales talent I would say it's going to go

[00:19:02] back to that resiliency and resourcefulness the reason I'm able to say that those are so important

[00:19:08] is those are two that I will say at moments in time I'll say I was unconvinced or I would give someone

[00:19:19] literally that a little bit of leeway and ultimately it comes down to if they're not highly resourceful

[00:19:26] if they're if they struggle with their we can do the adversity it's not fair to them they

[00:19:31] struggle down the road and then we all struggle right so and an early stage company it is so amplified

[00:19:38] on every person you bring in the organization they are either a positive force multiplier

[00:19:44] or they are a negative tractor and if you get the resiliency wrong and you get the lack of resourcefulness

[00:19:51] wrong it can put somebody in that unexpected negative detractor mode because those around them

[00:19:58] see them struggle and that itself is a challenge so I'd say if I've made a couple of

[00:20:05] hires I've made those were the two areas that I'd say and I won't say whether in those instances

[00:20:12] they may have come out of larger organizations without is and they were that's why say they

[00:20:16] there's a you try to find every way to peel back the layers and get some good behavioral examples

[00:20:23] and now I think I'm we're getting better on getting better at finding those that it's not about the

[00:20:28] size of the company it's what you did over the course of your career what was that progression what

[00:20:33] what situations where you put in that that simply there was no clear path right and how do you work

[00:20:38] through it those are things I want to understand yeah that's great and it's like the thing that

[00:20:43] I ran into is like the knowledge trap like I I've made a mistake where they're so knowledgeable

[00:20:49] they know the business inside and out they know what it takes and so you hire for knowledge

[00:20:55] the knowledge trap when you should have hired for resiliency and resourcefulness and that happens

[00:21:01] too it's happened to me you're a solid you brought up a point I that's a great one because you think

[00:21:08] about if you're really shaping the industry you're shaping the market you're doing things that are

[00:21:13] novel and unique and everything that you're doing that four to ten years of experience yes it's

[00:21:19] given you lots of insight and other things but that's not necessary always a thing that is going to

[00:21:25] unless you're using that season experience and adapting and like you say you're applying that

[00:21:30] knowledge in new and different ways and you've demonstrated that's the knowledge trap yeah now I

[00:21:35] love it man great discussion you've definitely given us a lot to think about on the recruiting

[00:21:40] side of things the characteristics to look forward to how do you build and maintain a culture

[00:21:46] of continuous learning and improvement I would say that essentially evaluate learn and adjust

[00:21:58] I think part of what I look to put in place fairly quickly are our measures right what it starts

[00:22:05] out with everything from our strategy to our projections for the investors but

[00:22:10] taking that all the way to something that is it's very tangible very measurable in our progress

[00:22:16] along the way evaluate learn listen engage everybody in that process and then part of that is

[00:22:24] why evaluate learn adjust you got to adjust right so out of the gate we just make assumptions

[00:22:29] right you're starting a brand new business your you have there's no formative technology that you

[00:22:35] follow on to whatever it is you're going on your season judgment right you're going to take some

[00:22:39] really good season assumptions at what things but we need to evaluate and assess that

[00:22:44] and as a team we've also incorporated some tools securities actually is one that I'd say I

[00:22:50] use one of their you talked about CRM before I used to create my own models and excel and everything

[00:22:56] else and it was always yeah labor tents up to manage each critical inflection point or each critical

[00:23:02] stage and our valued pipeline but with some of the tools for that the community has recently introduced

[00:23:07] a pipeline tool that is by rat by territory all rolled up at the highest level I can look at every

[00:23:15] opportunity I can look I can quantify that opportunity I can see what the probability of not just

[00:23:22] we'll say closing on the opportunity but what's the right fit within that opportunity for our

[00:23:27] technology and we can map that to every stage of our that's critical to our business model in our

[00:23:33] funnel and one of the things I do very quickly is and we do every month it was we roll in we look at

[00:23:40] pipeline and every week every month and every quarter I'm learning what's the time through each

[00:23:46] stage what's been the challenges what are things we might do that we can get ahead up to accelerate

[00:23:52] the stages in that process it could be just getting through value analysis committee those kind of

[00:23:57] things I suggest one of the more challenging things in MedTech but as a result of measuring those

[00:24:03] we're going to get better at a higher level of predictability if we're at a higher level

[00:24:09] predictability then what we've really demonstrated is viability predictability scalability of the company

[00:24:15] love it and I love your evaluate learn adjust process it's so simple but really like sometimes you

[00:24:24] you got to make those adjustments fast whether it's your run rates running close or you're at the

[00:24:30] end of the quarter and you need to make something happen absolutely always yeah Rob this has been

[00:24:39] phenomenal your experience your background is just it's worth its weight and gold I'm grateful that

[00:24:46] you did this podcast with us what closing thought would you give to all the MedTech leaders and the MedTech

[00:24:51] people listening today I would say that's a great first of all it's great question solemn thank you

[00:24:57] I'd say this is a space that I think continues to present great opportunity for all of us

[00:25:04] and that's why I loved about that's why I've been doing it for 30 years I've been doing since I was 10

[00:25:09] it's one of those and in every time we've hit all of these different challenges that the industry

[00:25:15] itself and the space has gone through whether it's reimbursement challenges it just prompts us to

[00:25:21] be more clever more innovative learn evolve adapt so I think maybe going at that evaluate learn and adjust

[00:25:29] I think that's something that that we all do we need to do it we need to do it as companies we

[00:25:33] need to do it as individuals and by frankly I think that's what keeps this such a great space because

[00:25:39] ultimately we get great satisfaction great to join it when loved ones friends family you name it

[00:25:46] all benefit from I'll just say better health in terms of what we're doing look it's great way to close

[00:25:52] here and folks if you want to learn more about Rob about Bolt about a QDMD all the show notes are

[00:26:00] going to have the links where you could check out the technology at Bolt acuity technology and

[00:26:06] the highlights of today's episode so Rob can't thank you enough for being with us today this has been

[00:26:11] a true pleasure thank you so much appreciate