The Crucial Role of Sleep in Preventing Chronic Diseases with Colin Lawlor, CEO of SleepScore Labs

[00:00:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey everyone, welcome back to the Outcomes Rocket founder stories. I'm so excited to have

[00:00:09] [SPEAKER_00]: you all join us again because today I've got a very special guest. His name is Colin Lawlor

[00:00:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and if you've been listening to our podcast since the beginning, the name sounds familiar

[00:00:20] [SPEAKER_00]: or if you're in the sleep health business, the name will sound familiar. He is the

[00:00:25] [SPEAKER_00]: chief executive officer at SleepScore Labs. He's a wellness and sleep veteran and he's

[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_00]: a passionate believer in the power of technology to connect the dots and drive better health outcomes.

[00:00:37] [SPEAKER_00]: His career has spanned over 30 years having worked at ResMed, BiancaMed and Biomedical Research.

[00:00:44] [SPEAKER_00]: He's leading firms in the sleep science and wellness space and that's what we're going to

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_00]: be talking about today. He was a guest back in 2018 on the Outcomes Rocket two years into our

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_00]: journey and so glad to have him back. Colin, welcome. Hey Saul, delighted to be back and it

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_01]: honestly feels like a blink since the last time we were on the show. So that's incredible.

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Where does that song go? It's incredible. So we're in 2024 now. That was six years ago.

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_00]: So like a lot has happened. Colin, you and I had a chance to catch up

[00:01:16] [SPEAKER_00]: before this podcast to really kind of think about, you know, the discussion and I had a lot

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_00]: of fun with our catch up session and now it's time to catch up our listeners. So for the people

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_00]: that haven't had a chance to get to know you, help them understand what got you into healthcare and

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_00]: why did you decide to be an entrepreneur? Oh cool. Let me go back to the very beginning

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_01]: to help answer that question. You know I started my life in consumer marketing

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_01]: in the beer business, a certain little Irish company called Guinness right now.

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And an amazing company I learned an enormous amount but it wasn't fulfilling for me, right?

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I felt like I wanted to make a difference. So I spent quite a number of years in management

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_01]: consulting and a couple of other areas and then I joined my first company in the health and wellness

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_01]: area, Biomedical Research and there I found my home because really at the end of the day

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_01]: to me this business is growing a business, there's driving a business and being successful but

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_01]: the sweet spot for all of us in the health space, it's about making a difference at the end of the

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_01]: day to people's lives and to health, right? And so to me that is the most motivating,

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_01]: unimportant challenge, right? There are 8 billion on people on the planet, 4 billion waking up

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_01]: tired every day. There's a continued growth in pretty much every major chronic disease.

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_01]: The healthcare systems all around the world are struggling to solve the problem.

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_01]: So when you look at it, the outlook even though there's been tremendous achievement

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_01]: in many, many areas of health, the outlook is a real challenging environment. So that's a place where

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I really believed as an opportunity to make a difference and so hence that's what gets me

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_00]: out of bed every morning if you forgive the pun. I love that. I love it. So good. And look,

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_00]: sleep is a critical, critical piece of every single comorbidity, chronic condition out there

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_00]: and we're going to unpack this a little bit more and the meaningful work that Colin and his team is

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_00]: doing in research but also in interoperability and data. So Colin, help us really understand

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_00]: the business. What are you guys up to at Sleep Score Labs and how are you adding value to the

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_01]: healthcare ecosystem? Well, I think it starts as it always does when you think about it. If

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_01]: you want to manage any problem, you have to be able to measure it. So we set out on our journey

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_01]: many, many years ago starting with how to measure it. The great news today is that there are many,

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_01]: many different ways to measure sleep and inside that once you've got the ability to measure it,

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_01]: then it's about learning what affects it and what changes it. To your point about

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_01]: comorbidities and so forth, when I started my journey in the sleep space, sleep was for

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_01]: wimps. 14 years ago, you were a hero as you pulled an all nighter. It was a badge of honor

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_01]: to walk around the offices to guide us, slept least and worked hardest. That is where we were

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_01]: coming from. We had a belief right from the very beginning that better sleep could deliver

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_01]: better outcomes but we actually had to explain that at the time. We had to educate people

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_01]: and since we started in that work, ResMed itself and the founder in particular, Peter Farrell,

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_01]: he had a tremendous, tremendous simple statement which was ignorance is our greatest

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_01]: competitor. Even though at that time, ResMed's number one competitor was Phillips, the truth was

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_01]: it was ignorance. What has happened since then has been really transformative. Now people get it.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_01]: But I still get asked a question from time to time which is it the chicken or is it the egg?

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_01]: What role does sleep play in health? Does poor sleep cause chronic disease?

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Or does chronic disease cause poor sleep? Truth is there is certainly a bi-directional

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_01]: relationship but we are getting better and better and better in terms of the science and

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_01]: understanding the causative effect of poor sleep pretty much every area of chronic disease.

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_01]: So literally in the last six months there have been a bunch of the new landmark studies

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_01]: further illustrating this as if people don't already know but just to highlight three points,

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_01]: a person age 60 for every 1% change in deep sleep. So that's typically one to two minutes.

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_01]: So a one to two minute change in the amount of deep sleep to the negative has a 27%

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_01]: increased risk of Alzheimer's and dementia. There is now another landmark study done in type 2

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_01]: diabetic populations even when diet is controlled, if sleep is not it is very difficult to

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_01]: actually control blood sugar levels. We know the relationship between poor sleep and mental health

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_01]: and so forth. So our hypothesis from the beginning has been that sleep is a driver of better or worse

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_01]: outcomes and so therefore understanding how people sleep and in helping them to sleep better

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_01]: is a critical part of delivering outcomes in almost every area of health. I actually believe

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_01]: as we are looking at this more and more, the great and tremendous investments in building

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_01]: digital health platforms in mental health to support people with cardiovascular disease

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and oncology and so forth. All of those platforms are doing great work but every one of them

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_01]: struggles with how do I engage people and how do I further improve the outcomes from my digital

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_01]: health platform? And I believe based on the data that the missing ingredient is you're

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_01]: ignoring the effect of sleep. Let me give you one more little statistic here which is really,

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_01]: really, really key and published in the Lancet very recently the timing of the therapeutic

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_01]: intervention if it's timed in line with the chronobiology or the kind of natural circadian

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_01]: rhythm of the individual if it's timed optimally the effect on outcomes is up to 40% greater.

[00:07:06] [SPEAKER_01]: So I tell you what listen I don't want to be treated at the wrong time to get sub-optimal

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_01]: outcomes and how do we know right? And Colin is this one about radiation? No, this chemotherapy.

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Not only is the timing of chemotherapy very important for the outcomes but it's also

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_01]: very important for the side effects and you know personally in this space I'm sorry I've

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_01]: lost two of my parents in the last number of years both to cancer I did not know that I

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_01]: sat with my mother waiting for her chemo in a hospital in Dublin four hours late at 5pm. I didn't

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_01]: know I had no idea so the key for me is look these are not enormous interventions what this

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_01]: is about is leveraging the data and the insights about how a person sleeps about their circadian

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_01]: rhythm to direct and drive better outcomes in every aspect of their care. So my contention is

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_01]: if you are ignoring sleep and you are in any one of those fields you are leaving outcomes on the

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_01]: table and you are not delivering the best in care so what we have to do and this is what we now do

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_01]: is we have made all of our insights all of our technology all of our research available in a suite

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_01]: of very very simple to implement and integrate software tools. So you don't have to go figure

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_01]: sleep out all by yourself we're happy to provide our technology the Sleep Score inside technology

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_01]: for you to add that to your platform and basically that's our vision. Our vision is you cannot

[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_01]: help a person to get best outcomes without taking sleep into account and for the most part

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_01]: unless you've got a very strong evidence-based database approach to sleep you are not going

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_01]: to do a good job with it. So putting those two things together making those available to your

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_01]: patients, to your consumers, to your customers in all of those areas of health and wellness

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_01]: that's what we have in mind and that's what we've been building. That's outstanding Colin

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_00]: congratulations on the advancements that you've made you and the team have made

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_00]: not only on the research side of things but also on the business model as you've

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_00]: grown and evolved you sort of have what it sounds like now have a database business

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_00]: that enables connectivity and anybody with health apps which is how many are out there?

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Like more than 350,000 health apps out there. So the market's huge and for any of any I mean

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_00]: look guys gals you guys are running these companies you're listening to this do you

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_00]: have a validated tested and research backed way to really measure sleep within your app?

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_00]: If the answer is no you got to be taking Colin's information because he and his team have it for

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_00]: you the API as I understand are in place to be able to leverage this data is that right?

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_01]: That's exactly right look what we've figured along this pathway we started with our own

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_01]: technology our own proprietary technology developed in Bianca Med improved in res med

[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_00]: and spun into sleep score labs I remember you sent me one I had it next to my bed it was a little

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_01]: black device that's the one yeah and we started with that device and started to collect data right

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and then we made a breakthrough because we developed new technology to convert a typical

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_01]: smartphone into a bio motion sensor using sonar not audio sonar so measuring bio motion respiratory

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_01]: pattern you know basically body movement respiratory pattern etc by converting the

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_01]: smartphone into a bio motion sensor is that meant hey Colin I have a quick question on that

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_00]: because that's super intriguing so is sonar built into the phone or is it an attachment?

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_01]: No it's we just commandeered the speaker and the microphone in a typical smartphone to send out

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_01]: sound waves to measure the response times it's not listening to audio there's nobody

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_01]: somewhere in the center kind of you know machine learning listening to your conversations

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_01]: it's simply using sound waves to measure respiratory movements incredible and so we built that technology

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_01]: what that enabled us to do was to collect now 120 million hours of sleep data from you know people

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_01]: of with all sorts of issues around the world and that is a ground truth data and then we opened

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_01]: up the platform and now we take data from pretty much any major wearable or even device like a

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_01]: bed itself and we've got about half a billion hours of that data wow what that enabled us to do is to

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_01]: understand the relative strengths and weaknesses of each and therefore how to use the data to help

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_01]: identify what the sleep issues for any given person are so basically we've solved all of those

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_01]: problems so if you just think about this for a moment if you have a health and wellness app

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_01]: you don't have to worry about whether your customer or patient or end consumer has a particular wearable

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_01]: it doesn't matter they can have any wearable or no wearable believe it or not and we can still

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I've heard them call them nearable precisely and nearable a wearable and in fact for 1.2

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_01]: billion people just the iPhone itself and yeah with no tracker and we can find from the data

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_01]: available inside there very very very good picture of a person's sleep what the relative issues are

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_01]: and so forth so all of that technology is now built into a suite of APIs and models that can be very

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_00]: very easily integrated into any platform that's amazing so for somebody listening to this

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Colin that wants to improve their sleep is this something that's available to consumers

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_01]: or is this mainly a B2B play at this point yeah our focus is primarily B2B got it because what we

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_01]: figured out was okay we have to be the best of the world at something so we can be the best in

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_01]: the world at consumer marketing or we can be the best in the world when it comes to the data

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_01]: and the science to support better outcomes and so our decision is we want to and we believe the

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_01]: best in the world are providing this technology to other companies that's why we've been

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_01]: building partnerships with really great companies in all sorts of areas from health and wellness

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_01]: through to consumer products companies like international flavors and fragrances i. f. after

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_01]: on the new york stock exchange we have partnerships with mattress firm significant

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_01]: investor in the company of course that makes a huge amount of sense because they sell

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_01]: products connected to sleep to consumers yeah so across the board the focus for us is

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_01]: building partnerships and we are therefore focused on building better and better data and

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_01]: the insights from that data and more and more tools that can help people to sleep better and our

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_01]: partners build them into their offerings and services and that helps them to drive their

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_00]: businesses that's outstanding thanks for sharing that and look we're talking about founder stories

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_00]: here we're talking about healthcare innovation and we all know that it's not a smooth road

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_00]: all the time so you know kallen like what would you highlight as maybe one of your biggest setbacks

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_00]: to date and what did that setback teach you that we could teach outcomes rocket listeners today

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_01]: wow well i think probably one of the biggest if i could highlight that was we started with a

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_01]: hardware approach so we started by building our own sensor device and it is the best

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_01]: sensor device in the world even to this day there isn't one which is more published and

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_01]: so forth but what we realized was that that isn't enough to be successful and that isn't

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_01]: enough to make the difference because by definition unless four billion people buy that sensor which

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_01]: of course is a huge business we're not going to reach people at scale so what we had to do

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_01]: is to ask ourselves how else can we derive the insights necessary to help a person how

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_01]: else can we do that and i think that's ultimately where we've now ended up because

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_01]: ultimately consumers have their preferences some people want to wear their wearable device on their

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_01]: wrist on their so other people on their finger and there's you know hundreds of such devices right

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_01]: and other people don't want to wear any device but they're happy to have a bed that tracks data

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_01]: and other people have nothing at all because they forget to do it but they do have

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_01]: an iphone sitting beside them every night the point being if you want to you want to

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_01]: help them all and what you want to do is you want to extract the most value from

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_01]: that data the most insights from that data so that you can provide the services to screen those

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_01]: people for disorders to coach and personally coach and help each individual leveraging the

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_01]: technology so i guess the hardest part was realizing that look a hardware play is not

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_01]: going to work and in the end the funny thing is we ended up basically leveraging our hardware

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_01]: play to drive a whole new business and that whole new business is in sleep r&d services we help companies

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_01]: by enabling them to collect data and insights about how their products perform in terms of

[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_01]: their impact on sleep quality and we've now completed 235 studies so those studies are really

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_01]: really important because i want to say to you so the answer isn't always only in medicine

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah the answer is in behavior it's in the environment it's in the sleeping surface

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and it's in medicine it's in all of it right so you can't by definition solve a person's

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_01]: sleep issue by only looking at one little vertical within that you actually have to connect the

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_01]: doubts across all of them and so from that perspective what it's enabled us to do

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_01]: the hardware play that we set out to leverage as the driver of the business ended up being

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_01]: an enabler of a different business but also it pushed us into thinking about how can we

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_00]: leverage data that's already accessible and available totally hey kallen that's so interesting

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_00]: right and it's waking up to that fact of where the market's going and having the guts right

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_00]: because the whole thesis was we have hardware there's four billion units and this is the

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_00]: market and now you shifted to no it's actually different and i have a question for you on that

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_00]: just a little nuance question so with this sleep study business did you initially start with

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_00]: deploying the capital units and then evolve to not even having to yeah i mean for the sleep

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_01]: study business yes in essence we started by deploying the units for the sleep studies

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_01]: and actually we still use units for a lot of sleep studies okay but we now collect data from

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_01]: anything and everything so yeah right so what we have learned i mean this is where the new new

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_01]: technology ai ml models that's really key because it's about combining the data from all of those

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_01]: sources plus other kind of proprietary approaches and that that enables us to build very very

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_01]: effective predictive models so for example if a person has no tracker whatsoever but they

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_01]: have an iphone there is information collected about when they put the phone down every night

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_01]: how many times they pick it up during the night when they get up in the morning and so forth

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_01]: and if they're happy to share that data and answer a couple of particular proprietary questions

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_01]: we can help that person with a very very quick immediate insight and so to us it's all about

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_01]: leveraging the data that's available and minimizing the impact on the consumer or

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_01]: the patient and packaging all of that so that it can be easily integrated into

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_01]: the health and wellness services that those companies are using but the data

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_01]: is really critical and it's now becoming very very very exciting and that's the key like you

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_01]: know half a billion hours of that data is great and a lot of people have a lot of data

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_01]: but the problem that people have with data is how do i get quality data that i can really

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_01]: use and that's not easy and so if you're building and training ai models for example to

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_01]: coach and train a to help personally coach an individual the data that you feed into that model

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_01]: is really really important we know that an llm which is trained by scraping the web is not going

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_01]: to give a person good advice right we also know from our own research which spoiler alert will

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_01]: be publishing relatively soon an llm is also not capable of taking a data set and truly

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_01]: understanding that when it comes to sleep we don't know about other health fields but when

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_01]: it comes to sleep it's not by itself but llm's are still incredibly valuable tools in parts of the

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_01]: chain so for us the key here is when it comes to a person's sleep it's too important for it to be

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_01]: left to guesswork snake oil and insufficient data so what we have to do and what we focus on doing

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_01]: is bringing the data and the science to understand exactly how a person is really sleeping

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_01]: and what we can do to guide and help them and that's the key so i think that in the broader picture

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_01]: and as we're talking about trends right now there is absolutely no doubt that the leveraging of ai

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_01]: tools is key and we have been leveraging ai tools basically since the very beginning

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_01]: we even acquired a company called sleep.ai in 2017 or 2018 yeah so you know we've been doing

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_01]: that from the very beginning but with guardrails you can't allow the models the model is not capable

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_00]: of achieving the outcomes all by itself. Well we look forward to getting this new research

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_00]: from you Colin the work that you guys have done around this the ai models and in sleep

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_00]: so we're excited to get that when it's hot off the press and i gotta tell you i always enjoy

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_00]: connecting with you this has been an incredible opportunity to hear the advancements in your

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_00]: journey and the company's journey what closing thought would you leave us with and if anybody

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_01]: wants to get in touch where can they do it? I think this is both personal and business right

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_01]: so i tried to think about something in terms of a closing thought and you use the phrase i'm

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_01]: gonna repeat it it's wake up to sleep right wake up to sleep for the personal level i have

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_01]: witnessed it myself please don't ignore us every one minute makes a difference figuring out how to

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_01]: add that minute to this minute to the other minute is the difference between i believe later in life

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_01]: being very sick or not and or being less sick and i think from a personal point of view wake up

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_01]: to sleep from a business point of view every one of your customers every one of your patients

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_01]: sleeps or sleeps poorly and you don't know but believe it or not the difference between those

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_01]: two things has a outsized impact on how they engage and the outcomes that you can achieve with them

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_01]: so you have to include sleep by ignoring it you are actually putting differences in terms of

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_01]: outcomes of 30 and 40 percent you're making them unavailable to your patient or consumer

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_01]: you can't do that any longer you can't ignore it we will be delighted to help of course and that's

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_01]: our business and you can find us at sleepscore.com you can find me on linkedin collin j lullar

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_01]: and look we'd be delighted to help regardless but the mission is clear we believe if we can

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_01]: help people to sleep better we can deliver better outcomes but also we believe that we cannot do

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_01]: it alone and nobody can do it alone there's four billion people to help and so it's about

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_01]: connecting dots and working with people and that's why we make the technology that we put all this

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_01]: blood sweat and tears into available so that other companies don't have to put the blood sweat

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_01]: and tears into figuring it out instead they can go do it and make the difference and deliver

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_00]: the outcomes amazing collin well i'm inspired and i know the listeners are too about just the

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_00]: depth at which you've approached this topic of sleep you left me with the thought that hey

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_00]: you got to control the controllables in business and in health and with sleepscore you could control

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_00]: sleep so measure it make a difference as collin says wake up to sleep and do something about it

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_00]: in your business and in your life collin this has been so great grateful that you came back on

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_01]: and looking forward to staying in touch thanks a lot so and thank you everybody really

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_01]: appreciate it thanks sleep well that's right sleep well