The Future of Patient-Centric Care: Insights from the Healthcare Technology Frontier with Geoff McCleary, VP of Global Connected Health Lead at Capgemini

[00:00:00] Hey everybody, Saul Marquez with the Health Matters Podcast. I want to welcome you back

[00:00:13] to another episode recorded here at the Health 2023 Las Vegas meeting. Today I have the

[00:00:20] privilege of hosting Jeff McCleary on the podcast. He's the VP of Global Connected

[00:00:25] Health Lead at Cap Gemini. He helps healthcare and life sciences leaders leverage the power

[00:00:30] of digital and data to turn their connected health efforts into value driving enterprises. Jeff,

[00:00:37] so glad you're here with us. Thank you for having me. You know what?

[00:00:40] It's time to be here. Yeah, you know, and so was this date two of the conference date?

[00:00:44] Yeah. Two of the conference. Two and a half, right?

[00:00:46] Two and a half. You get that half day on Sunday. That's true. So how's it been for you?

[00:00:50] It's been good. I love coming to health because it's really kind of the pulse of where

[00:00:54] the industry is at and if you come over successive years, you can see the, like, look at the

[00:00:59] trends and the way things are shifting in the market, where companies are facing their

[00:01:03] efforts and where new startups and new technologies are starting to be introduced.

[00:01:08] Yeah. Now, I think that's a really great point and you sort of start to stitch all the dots

[00:01:12] to make the trends, like you said. That's why I like it too. And just kind of like digging

[00:01:16] in. I want to just sort of help the audience get to know you a little bit better. What

[00:01:20] is it that inspires your work in healthcare? I've been in the healthcare for a very long

[00:01:25] time. I think always on the digital side because I'm very passionate about the power of technology

[00:01:30] and what we can do. And that really kind of hit home for me, like about nine years ago

[00:01:35] when my youngest was diagnosed with type one diabetes. And so through that,

[00:01:39] you really first hand see the power and technology. There's devices that he wears

[00:01:43] that keep him alive, that deliver his insulin, that tell everybody connected to him in a familial

[00:01:49] stakeholder group where he's at and whether there's blood sugar is higher low and can really help him

[00:01:55] live a normal life. And hopefully we get to more advancements in that space. We get to see new

[00:02:01] organic driven solutions that can or digital solutions that can help not even have to maybe take

[00:02:06] insulin at all at some point in time. So for me, that's the kind of manifestation of the work that

[00:02:10] we do and why I like doing it. That's fantastic. And it's sort of that innovation that drives

[00:02:16] results for patients. Yeah. How can companies strike the right balance between innovation and focus?

[00:02:23] It's an interesting question, and we've seen a lot of that here, like especially as companies come

[00:02:27] to look at startups and health tech companies for partnering, part of that challenge is you can get

[00:02:32] lost in innovation for innovation sake. And if you look at the startup community or the digital health

[00:02:37] community, you have to look at 100 companies to find one or two that really make sense for ultimately

[00:02:43] what you want to do with them. And so you've got the mix of kind of incubators and accelerators

[00:02:48] and growth platforms, but the ones that really succeed are the ones that really put a focus on

[00:02:53] why do I want to innovate? What strategic areas of growth am I trying to drive? And what companies

[00:02:58] can help me get there? Or what new technologies can I not do organically that I can partner with

[00:03:03] somebody on and have a process and have a structure in place that allows them to be successful,

[00:03:08] because you can go out and talk to 20 companies and develop new solutions through an accelerator

[00:03:13] approach. But if the rest of your organization isn't ready for those innovations when they come

[00:03:17] in, it becomes a challenge and becomes a growth limiter. Yeah, for sure. Having the right

[00:03:22] approach in this front is key. It's super important to have that strategy and that process,

[00:03:28] maybe even a governance to drive this type of partnerships, integrations, innovations.

[00:03:32] Why is innovation crucial for connected MetTech devices? And how does it add value to the broader

[00:03:39] healthcare ecosystem? It's a really interesting question because we see on the the pharmaceutical

[00:03:43] versus the MetTech side, innovation occurs in different spaces. And so a lot of the pharma

[00:03:48] discussion here has been on kind of early stage R&D to integrate data and technology into new

[00:03:55] drug development and new solutions that support that drug. On the MetTech side, they've been producing

[00:04:01] devices for years and we have clients that are in the cusp of developing some new breakthrough

[00:04:06] technology, which happens. And we have others that have had devices out in hospitals or doctors

[00:04:11] offices for 20 or 30 years, but they're not connected. But they're now living in a world where

[00:04:16] when you add that additional context of what that device is for, what it's intended to do in that

[00:04:22] experience, you can actually really revitalize a product liner. You can look at really new ways

[00:04:27] to grow and evolve these products. And as you connect them better, you can start to look at now new

[00:04:33] kind of alternative models of value. So in the MetTech space especially we see a little bit of

[00:04:39] pharma but in MetTech space especially once you connected device, now you can start to build

[00:04:43] subscription programs. You may not have customers buying the device anymore and they may just

[00:04:48] pay a prescription to use it. And it's all these different new models that I think are being driven

[00:04:52] by the fact that you can now infuse such a level of connectivity into all these legacy systems.

[00:04:58] And at the same time, think about how that impacts how we want to develop new devices and new

[00:05:02] business models moving forward. It's such an interesting topic Jeff. And my mind just kind of goes

[00:05:07] in a thousand directions with it just thinking, okay, connected devices for improved consumer experience

[00:05:13] for a payer informed approach. I mean the list is long and super promising for MetTech leaders I

[00:05:21] think. Yeah, it's the idea that you ultimately get to a place where you can say, hey listen,

[00:05:25] the process was made more efficient. So if you're talking about an X-ray machine or imaging devices

[00:05:31] or bloody for East's devices or the outcomes were improved because we're talking about

[00:05:37] end patient kind of remote care or better management of that care. All of that is kind of now possible.

[00:05:44] And I think both sides of the biofarmer and the MedTech world are starting to look at, okay,

[00:05:49] now here's how I can measurably improve this outcome because that's really what payers and providers

[00:05:54] want to see is the use of this sort of my coverage of this. Yeah, make the patient better in the long run.

[00:06:01] Love that. And on the topic of measurement, why is the measurement of the success of connected

[00:06:05] health products often overlooked despite the importance? I think we saw early on in the market

[00:06:11] if you look back eight, ten years there was like a hundred thousand apps in healthcare. And it was

[00:06:16] kind of the way you got promoted. You could build an app and you could move up. And some of them

[00:06:20] were okay, but largely most weren't. And then we saw data privacy and health data regulations change

[00:06:27] and it transformed the industry a bit. And I think pharma and I think MedTech kind of late to the game

[00:06:33] struggled with just being compliant in those new areas. And I think there was a lot of scare around

[00:06:38] making sure that if I touched this data or I really shouldn't touch this data,

[00:06:42] that you build systems or ways of working that protect you. And I think that kind of approach has

[00:06:48] slowed down kind of that focus on okay, one, I'm doing this for a reason. I want to improve patient

[00:06:53] lives. I want to better manage their treatments, but there's also a business value to that. And so

[00:06:58] at the end of the day, we want to make sure that we have improved what we do as an organization,

[00:07:03] whether it's something that's reimbursable or it's something that helps patients better utilize

[00:07:07] our medications or maybe it just improves, think about cell and gene therapies. Maybe it just

[00:07:12] improves our process because it better connects that early diagnosis through our supply chain up

[00:07:18] to end patient use. Those are all different ways to think about value. And it's not that you have

[00:07:23] to pick any one over the other. It's just a matter of saying that hey, this does drive value

[00:07:28] because I think when we see internal efforts, they get to a point where cost increases, you continue

[00:07:33] to develop things. And somebody takes a look at it and says, okay, well, where's the revenue?

[00:07:38] And where's the impact? And I think the teams that are being really successful about that now

[00:07:42] are really starting to think about how they answer those questions. And again, it doesn't have

[00:07:46] to be a direct revenue. It can be more about being more efficient internally, but there's

[00:07:50] a reason that we're doing it. And there's implications, right? I mean, the implications downstream

[00:07:54] of more efficiently working obviously, it leads to better results overall.

[00:07:59] They need to better result from the patient at the end of this is really the key. If we can be

[00:08:03] more efficient about that, if we can be better prepared, a better suited to deliver those solutions,

[00:08:08] then I think that's the win for everyone. Love it. Thank you, Jeff. And so we started the conversation

[00:08:13] on your son and his user experience, your user experience as a father or the family. This user

[00:08:19] experience is key. And so what risks do pharma and Medtech companies face if they neglect that?

[00:08:26] I think it goes back to the cost piece. We've seen projects throughout the years where people

[00:08:31] get into an effort because they kind of read what they wanted out of the market research or thought

[00:08:35] that, well, hey, this is successful. So this will be successful when they launch into development

[00:08:39] and you get halfway through and it's cumbersome. It's internal transformation and management hasn't

[00:08:45] kept up. And they can ultimately be very expensive and not necessarily driving value.

[00:08:50] So when we think about putting these things out in the marketplace, and I think what we heard here

[00:08:54] at Health is a really important indicator of that. Those outcomes and thinking about what are we

[00:08:59] going to generate with that really have to start at the patient. So even as early on as early

[00:09:03] phase R&D, when we heard some of the leaders hear talking about that, it's really about

[00:09:08] when you pick the right digital biomarkers to integrate into a clinical trial, that has to start

[00:09:13] with understanding the patient experience. That has to then incorporate the right digital biomarkers

[00:09:18] that will drive the right outcomes for that patient set or that patient type. And then providing

[00:09:23] on the back end that the digital experience that's going to be the best for the patient and their

[00:09:27] treatment and their care. Love that. And so folks, are you thinking about the user experience?

[00:09:33] And if you are kudos to you, if you're not, it's time. And maybe you could do it better.

[00:09:39] Maybe there's good ways to do it. So this is a good segue to ask you about cap Gemini a little bit.

[00:09:43] So how are you guys helping MedTech and Pharma with things like patient experience?

[00:09:49] So we have across our groups, we're about 330,000 people globally. We have our acquisition of

[00:09:55] frog several years ago is really kind of leading the forefront of how we help clients rethink those

[00:10:01] experiences, getting in and understanding, really doing a deep dive on the behaviors and the

[00:10:06] motivations that matter for those patients and the physicians and the stakeholders that are going to

[00:10:10] be responsible for working with them and then leveraging our strategic support with our invent arm

[00:10:16] and working hand in hand with those groups to really create the products that matter. And then

[00:10:22] with our engineering divisions, really helping design and build and implement those products into

[00:10:27] the marketplace in a way that really drives that safety and compliance but also provides a seamless

[00:10:33] way to execute in the marketplace in a very efficient manner. Yeah, you know, it's super fascinating

[00:10:37] to learn about your business and how you have these different arms of the business that sort of

[00:10:42] help connect the entire experience because there's certainly, you know, there's the engineering,

[00:10:47] there's the experience, there's the entire regulation compliance, right? Well, it's a full end-to-end.

[00:10:52] So when you have all of the understanding of each of those areas of that life cycle,

[00:10:57] it becomes really beneficial to the industry and to clients to be able to say, okay, well listen,

[00:11:02] we want to make this change here. Here's what that means when you, you know, six months post commercialization

[00:11:07] and you can really help to see, kind of long-term impact and help drive the best decision-making

[00:11:12] throughout that process and really do it in a way that is scalable and allows companies to grow

[00:11:16] with these approaches. Totally. I love that Jeff at the end. I just think of it like my analogy

[00:11:21] and my brain is a sailor at sea. Do you want to be with somebody that knows the ocean,

[00:11:25] that knows the ship? Yeah. The answer's yes. Yeah. It's so very helpful. It's dangerous out there.

[00:11:30] One mistake could crush your business. You don't want to take the risk and it's great to hear that

[00:11:35] you guys are experiencing this field the way you are. What explains the disparity between

[00:11:40] high ambitions for connected health and the current level of maturity observed in bio-farm organizations?

[00:11:46] Yeah, I think it depends in which kind of area of the world you look at. So we're seeing

[00:11:52] on the European side, we start to see governments like Germany and now France coming to new regulations

[00:11:58] that are meant to help kind of facilitate the growth of these types of solutions and we expect

[00:12:02] that to drive good things in those markets. I think in the US, the promise was there with some of

[00:12:07] the initial kind of regulatory steps that CMS took about reimbursement and how money can flow

[00:12:13] into this space. I think that has stagnated a little bit and I think it has led to some of the slowdown

[00:12:19] we see in specifically like the digital therapeutic space or the SMD space and it focused more on developing

[00:12:26] those solutions in those spaces that really do matter and that really do drive the right outcomes.

[00:12:32] So I think it's forced a bit of maturity and focus within the industry to say listen, we can now

[00:12:37] completely manage this data. We need to build solutions and we need to be able to drive behaviors

[00:12:42] throughout that experience that are going to matter. So it's been a journey and I think it's the

[00:12:47] what we kind of expect to see out of that kind of you follow the hype curve, the kind of maturity

[00:12:51] journey. We come out of that trough of despair disillusionment into like we're starting to find the

[00:12:56] footing on what really matters in the space and what solutions are going to make the most impact

[00:13:01] for companies and they're building towards that. That's great. Thank you for that. Look,

[00:13:05] this has been a fascinating discussion. I really appreciate you spending time with us here on the

[00:13:09] Health Matters podcast. What call the action would you leave the listeners with today? I think it's

[00:13:15] take a look at your organizations, it's take a look at your products and the customers and the

[00:13:22] patients and the stakeholders that you support and ask are we doing everything we can to really drive

[00:13:28] the right impact and are we doing it in a way that's responsible for the organization and it's

[00:13:33] responsible for the care and management of that condition with that stakeholder. You can start to

[00:13:38] look then and okay, all right, what are the things that we need to put in place then to really get

[00:13:42] there and get there in a way that is scalable and matters for our organization? I think when you take

[00:13:46] that critical lens and look at your internal organizations, it becomes a lot easier to say,

[00:13:50] all right, how do you and I as two separate stakeholders in an organization work together better to support

[00:13:56] this bigger purpose and I think we're seeing that in the space and I think the more people that do

[00:14:00] that, the better the space will be and the quicker will evolve and get to a really good point of

[00:14:04] where these things drive real outcomes and value for folks. Yeah, I love that call the action Jeff. So

[00:14:10] folks, you know, collaboration is the currency that will help you move forward. If you're at health,

[00:14:17] come connect with Jeff. If you're not reach out to him and on that note, you know, him and the team

[00:14:22] at Cap Gemini, what is the best place for folks to connect with you guys if they want to explore

[00:14:26] solutions maybe engage with you guys? Yeah, they can reach out to us through our website through

[00:14:31] any of the number of folks I'm sure that are in their organization or certainly contact us directly.

[00:14:36] You know, search on LinkedIn and find us as well. There's like, hundreds of thousands of us

[00:14:40] there to help support and get you where you need to be amazing. Folks will include links to

[00:14:45] Cap Gemini's LinkedIn, their website, Jeff's LinkedIn. So you guys can get in touch. Jeff, thanks so

[00:14:50] much. Thank you for having me. This has been great. I appreciate it.