The Missing Link In Healthcare: Trust with Darin Buxbaum, co-founder and CEO of Wider Circle

[00:00:02] Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Outcomes Rocket Founder Stories. I'm so excited to be joined by Darin Buxbaum. He is the co-founder and CEO of Wider Circle. Previously, he was the co-founder and VP of product at Oration, an insurance tech company enabling self-insured employers to really reduce their prescription drug spending.

[00:00:29] He's founded Hourglass Technologies. He's a serial innovator, seen as for, was also 40 under 40 in the medical device and diagnostic industry. So I'm excited to have him here. If the name sounds familiar, Wider Circle, that's because we had Dr. Tom Carlow on his team, the chief technology officer there. So excited to be speaking with Darin today. So Darin, thanks so much for joining us. Darin Buxbaum Oh, Saul. It's an honor to be with you.

[00:00:58] Darin Buxbaum Thanks, man. Really appreciate that. And look, to kick things off, why healthcare and why entrepreneurship? Darin Buxbaum Well, honestly, it's because my family business was bumper cars and arcades in Coney Island. And my family said, you cannot join the family business. So what can I do? I guess it was healthcare. Darin Buxbaum That's awesome. Darin Buxbaum It all serious. Although entrepreneurship runs in my blood, it really was the seminal moment.

[00:01:28] Darin Buxbaum I was a student in graduating from college. Medtronic was recruiting me and invited me into a cath lab to watch a defibrillator being implanted. Darin Buxbaum I'd studied electrophysiology, but I didn't realize that they need to test it before they let the patient off the table. Darin Buxbaum And so they tweak the patient into a dangerous arrhythmia. I'm looking at the EKG.

[00:01:48] Darin Buxbaum The heart's ventricular tachycardia. It's fibrillating. It's like five seconds to flatline. And then all of a sudden, bam, the device fires. The patient jumps six inches off the table. Darin Buxbaum Wow. Darin Buxbaum I look up at the monitor, and it's just like, beep, normal sinus rhythm, person's life saved in front of my eyes. And I'm like, I don't know where Minneapolis is, but I'm going there. I'm going to work here. Darin Buxbaum That's awesome.

[00:02:14] Darin Buxbaum So it was amazing. It was like watching a miracle. But the best part of that was really meeting the family, meeting the patient afterwards. They hugged me. I'm like, I don't work. I didn't invent this. This is technology that's saving our loved one's life. And I think that's just so special about healthcare. And I think that's what I've tried to shake my entire career off of.

[00:02:39] Darin Buxbaum That's awesome, Darren. I love that. And great story. Great moment. By the way, we share that Medtronic past. I spent about eight years there. And so did my wife. So yeah, just a phenomenal company. And those types of life-saving technologies really get you going, especially in entrepreneurship. When the going gets tough, you really need some strong North Star.

[00:03:03] Darin Buxbaum Anytime the going gets tough here, this has been the best company because we create these peer support groups. And I can go into the community, unlimited hugs. The members are always there to cheer you up and cheer you on. So it's important to have a good support system whenever taking on entrepreneurship.

[00:03:23] Darin Buxbaum I love that. And so look, Darren, help us understand more for the folks that didn't get a chance to listen to Tom's interview on the podcast. Talk to us about what Wider Circle does. What do you guys do? How do you add value to the ecosystem? Darren Buxbaum Sure. So Wider Circle, we create these peer support groups for vulnerable Americans, individuals on Medicaid, individuals on Medicare. And what we've been able to do is combine Kumbaya and calculators.

[00:03:52] So you have these support groups. We have these amazing human beings, we would call community engagement leads in these communities, helping these groups coalesce and thrive. And we're in healthcare and the business of healthcare, the source of truth are claims.

[00:04:09] So what we're able to translate is getting very positive behavior changes from the individuals in these groups to the metrics that matter, whether it's lowering inpatient utilization, whether it's getting the health risk assessments done, gaps closed, retaining members.

[00:04:26] Like members in our groups are happier. And so guess what? They stick with their health plan and they stick with their providers. And so there's, it's all just about moving those metrics on medical expenditures, on member retention, and on just the quality for the patients as well. That's great, Darren. And so community is a big, so you guys are making it stickier for patients to stay with their providers?

[00:04:53] Absolutely. Okay. Yeah. So we work with the value-based, large national value-based care provider groups, as well as working with the health plans. And by and large, people are happy with their physician, but look, all of this has become the business of healthcare. And so there's a lot of challenges and ways that you need to keep members satisfied, making sure that their appointments don't get canceled and like scheduled in a time that's good for them.

[00:05:19] Sometimes things happen. Their doctors leave. Their practices leave. Well, how do you figure that out? Like, how do you guide a patient? And I guess the core belief here is what's missing in healthcare is trust. So people no longer trust institutions. They don't trust their health plans. They may not even trust their providers at all times, let alone a vendor, but they do trust their neighbors. And that's where community is so important. Like, so I'm going to put you on the spot, but... Yeah, let's do it.

[00:05:49] You had to go to the dentist recently, or hopefully you haven't had to get too much of a medical procedure. How'd you figure that out? Did you open up the doctor directory? Was that like provider director? Was that your first stop? Definitely not. I was riding a scooter wiped out with my son. Oh, no. Hopefully he's okay. Hopefully you're okay. Yeah, we're both good. We were both... I sprained my knee. It was so painful. I don't know if you've ever sprained a knee. No. Actually, everything else. Not a knee.

[00:06:20] Painful. It took like six months to recover. But anyway, yeah, I didn't go to the provider directory. I went straight to the urgent care. Yeah, exactly. But we find like for our patients that a lot of our members have chronic knee pain, hopefully you won't, they are always looking for the right orthopedic person to help. And how do you get through that?

[00:06:49] Like, how do you get through the prior office and to get everything you need to get done? And so we find that they rely on each other. And what's really interesting about healthcare, it's complex. And when someone's figured it out, they want to share. They want to help others. And so all of a sudden they're like, no, I know how to get through this process in less than a month. It took me like three, four months, but I don't want that to happen to you. So we find in building these communities, people actively want to help each other.

[00:07:19] It's like a sleeping giant in healthcare that nobody has tapped into. That's fantastic. And so this is the missing element, right? It's a very disjointed interaction, interface, so to speak. You guys inject the community. So help us understand how it all comes together. Yeah, look, it starts with data. We ingest all of the encounters, Rx, gaps in care,

[00:07:45] data from like with our health plan partners so that we understand which members can most benefit from these communities. And interestingly, who are the members who are doing everything right? So much of healthcare only focus on the high needs, high risk individuals, totally forgetting that there are paragons of patient behavior within their midst.

[00:08:10] And we bring all of those folks together. So the next is we want to welcome people into groups. And in that stage, we're calling, we're texting, we're knocking on doors even. And we're making sure that people realize, hey, come out to this event, meet a group of like-minded folks, have a good time. What we're doing, and then when they get there, there's this thing about being just a human. You're with other people, you connect. And it's not like we have to twist their

[00:08:37] arms to come back. They want to come back. And so over time, that group becomes this real trusted relationship and source of support in their lives. And now, like once there is that support, great. Sure, a person needs to go get a colonoscopy or a person needs to take some other action for their health. It's no problem. There's someone in the group, because we've parsed it that way, who's done that? And it's like, don't worry. Oftentimes they'll even hold each other's hand,

[00:09:04] literally. They will transport a group member to the clinic, to the appointment, and be with them. Like you have somebody in your life. I don't want to digress too much, but we were doing this during the pandemic. And we would have members of groups sometimes call in from the hospital and call into their group. And we do this in person. We do some of it virtual too. And all of a sudden, when the members were like, oh my goodness, like you're in the hospital, they all rallied and made,

[00:09:32] like took turns and scheduled times where they, like you couldn't visit because it was COVID, but where they would call the person, check in, see how they were doing. Like, you're going to do better when you know you have people rooting for you and you have a reason to want to get out of there. I love that. Yeah, that's fantastic. And the resource that somebody could be in your biggest

[00:09:54] time of need, that trust element is key. What are you seeing be the biggest improvement in patient satisfaction and interaction with your platform? Yeah, this would be my recommendation for us as an organization, but for anyone in healthcare as well, set expectations accordingly, and then always

[00:10:18] follow up. So it's set the right expectations and then make sure you follow up on them. I oftentimes tell my team, older adults especially, but everyone in healthcare are like elephants. They do not forget. Like when you've made a promise, when you've set an expectation, you gotta deliver. And so we're doing that in all sorts of places of healthcare. When we look at dissatisfaction, pain management is,

[00:10:44] it's a tough one when you're in pain, like craving that relief is different when you have a realistic expectation of how much relief you can get. And so we talk about in our groups and people like are able to help others understand like what's in the range of possibility. You're not, you may not be pain-free. And so now when they go to their physicians and when they get the outcomes, they're like, you know what? I get it. Or you go into a dentist, you go and see dentists. What do you expect?

[00:11:12] Or what may you have to, you end up paying? I'll tell you, that's a big part of dissatisfaction, that vision. But the groups help people, help temper expectations. And now people have a quality experience, which by the way, they were having before, but their perspective on it is satisfied. I think that's what we lose track, like lose sight of in healthcare. You think we're following this process, there's always going to be an outcome. Much like happiness in our lives, like satisfaction is very relative.

[00:11:39] I love that. Yeah. And there could oftentimes be a missed expectation, right? Somebody thinks they're going to be a hundred percent when the reality 80% is as good as it gets. Exactly right. Yeah. And, but look, we have a lot of onus in healthcare of setting expectations better. I think it starts with the brokers who help sell the, these Medicare Advantage plans. Many of them

[00:12:07] absolutely wonderful people, but these benefits are confusing. And so individuals may think there's a lot more coming to them. And so that's an area that we focus on a lot with new members. It's like, look, we're all adults here. We know that not everything's for free. Here's what the plan can help with. And, and here's some other people in your community you can talk to so that you know how to guide, get guided to get everything you deserve, everything that's coming to you.

[00:12:35] That's great. And so on that front, Darren, you're working with accountable care organizations. You're working with payers. You're working with all of the people managing these programs for patients to help them feel more connected. Yes. And so oftentimes the provider who, you know, is delivering the care within these situations

[00:12:59] is the one that could benefit most from this. So talk to me about their role in this whole thing. Yeah. So like providers themselves, that's been such a unique relationship. We don't actively market to providers. And what we find though, is when we have enough members who are their patients in an area, all of a sudden they start out reaching to us. Why? Because they see a bunch of their members

[00:13:26] and these are good doctors. They're asking, how are you doing? What's new in your life? And they see that individuals are doing better, but they have a more positive mindset. And they're like, well, what's changed? And they're like, well, I joined this Connect for Life group by wider circle. Patients are, their patients are our best form of advertisement. And like we, I can't tell you how many providers have told the patient, I don't know what it is yet, but I'm going to find out. And whatever

[00:13:52] you do, keep doing it because you're really thriving right now. And so we start the relationships with providers there. And then all of a sudden their office is actually sending us folks. And as interesting, I'll tell you, at times I thought we should rename the company St. Jude because everyone likes to send us their lost causes and we welcome it. We embrace it. They will oftentimes send patients who are calling their offices constantly.

[00:14:19] And see what that, but why is that? Honestly, so much of the time is they're lonely. They are lonely. They just want to have some contact and connection. And we're like, bring us your huddled masses, like a Statue of Liberty. We're great at that. So we really help them, I'd say, relieve their staff of a lot of this additional calls that honestly they shouldn't be triaging. It's a different problem

[00:14:45] that they aren't equipped to solve. They're equipped to solve a lot of probably even more challenging problems. But we help with that, with the member retention, and then also with unengaged folks. There are people on their census, they don't want to come in. They can't get them to come in. But when they become part of our group, and all of a sudden through the nudging of other members, they're like, look, you really got to go in and get your annual checkup. Okay, I'll do it.

[00:15:15] It's, we create positive peer influence. So on the provider side, we're really able to help them engage their unengaged members, especially the ones they're taking risk for, help with the, some of their more challenging patients who may be over-utilizing their services for non-medical reasons as well. That's so great. And look, how much of this, Darren, is helping with mental health?

[00:15:40] You know, so much. Like, it's the starting point of this. We've done some studies. We actually just co-authored a study with Humana looking at healthy days, like the CDC, or measurement. And we looked at how many physical healthy days, how many mentally healthy days are you having? And we saw big improvements in both. But on the mental health side and behavioral health, like you're right,

[00:16:07] so much of it comes down to that. And we're, I'll just tell you like a personal experience, because when I started, you'll appreciate this as a founder, you start these organizations, you're doing everything at the beginning. And at the beginning, I got to run groups. And- Oh, you did? Nice. Oh yeah, absolutely. Oh, like a million amazing stories. But there were some individuals in these

[00:16:32] early groups. There was a person who felt safe enough in the group to share that bipolar schizophrenia. There was another person in the group that essentially had extreme social anxiety. Like just even just getting into the room with the other people absolutely was triggering for that. Yeah. And both of them found this so incredibly helpful. I didn't know this. They had their own support groups that they were in. And they basically recommended every buy in those groups to join our

[00:17:02] groups. And they said, it's different. So much of behavioral health. And we had an individual up here in the Bay Area with just severe depression. I was in depression group, like support groups. And I'll use his words. He's like, joining wider circle is different. Like I'm not just talking about my problems. I'm actually making friends that are supporting me. And the social workers and folks who were working with him, they would come to us and say his entire outlook on life changed.

[00:17:30] He'd been doing those other groups for 10 years, but finally he had people. And it wasn't that people all had the same challenge, but people who cared and wanted to listen and be a source of support. It completely changed his perspective on life. That's awesome, Darren. What a great story. And for our audience listening and watching us right now, what would you say, who's your main customer and how can they learn more about you and how can

[00:17:57] they get in touch with you if they want to explore what wider circle could do for them? I appreciate that. While we care and lovingly serve every member, the folks who are also champions and heroes in this are the sponsors. So these are Medicare Advantage plans. These are Medicaid MCOs. These are D-SNP plans as well as anybody who's taking risks, value-based care providers as well.

[00:18:24] And to learn more about us, you can check out our website at widercircle.com or our LinkedIn page as well. Amazing, Darren. Thank you so much for the opportunity to learn more about your company, the difference you're making in communities, sharing your entrepreneurial journey. So folks, make sure you check out the show notes because Darren obviously left the way to get in touch. So

[00:18:49] check him out there. There are unique ways to increase engagement. And if you're a risk-bearing organization, this is where you're going to want to take a look at. So check that out, reach out to Darren. And Darren, thank you so much for doing this. This was a big pleasure for us. Yeah, no, so absolutely equally. I had a great time. Thanks so much for having me. Our pleasure.