Why Customer Success Is the Next Major Category in MedTech with Rupal Ayer, Senior Director of Customer Success at Solventum

[00:00:02] Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Outcomes Rocket. I'm so excited to be hosting a really good friend and a leader in the medtech space. His name is Rupal Ayer, and he's the Senior Director of Customer Success at Solventum.

[00:00:21] His career spans several decades across many different medtech companies like J&J, Boston Scientific. He and I spent some time together at Comedian and Medtronic, and just a brilliant man in medtech and informatics.

[00:00:36] He is really just a multifaceted, 30-time triathlete, 41 U.S. patents to his name, MBA adjunct lecturer. I'm really pumped to be talking about a new category in medtech with him. Rupal, thanks for joining me. Absolutely. Thank you for the invite. I'm super excited. I've seen so many of your podcasts, and I am really excited to get a chance to be on one now.

[00:01:06] Yeah, Rupal, well, I'm honored that you're here with us because we're going to be talking about customer success, something that historically hasn't been done at the enterprise level. And the people that listen to us are in for a great treat. Before we start there, I did your intro, but tell us a little bit more about you and sort of the things that moved you to do what you do in medtech today.

[00:01:32] Yeah, sure. So I've, gosh, this sounds so old to say it now, almost 30 years in healthcare, and I've worked in small, medium, and large. I've worked in the four major verticals, so pharma and biotech, informatics, and medtech. I've operated in different capacities as well, starting in engineering and then breaking my father's heart and going to the dark side of marketing.

[00:02:01] So a lot of different rules in medtech. But really, the reason I ended up in healthcare was there was a draw. As so many folks that you've talked to saw, there's a draw to help people to impact lives.

[00:02:20] And so my story is really no different. So why healthcare? I get to make an impact, right, at a pace that I like. I thought biotech and pharma, no offense to those folks that are listening, wasn't pace for me. So I like making the impact in medtech. I like the pace. And I like standing up new things. And then on a very personal level, as part of my faith, I'm asked to love people.

[00:02:45] So healthcare is just a natural setting for me to operate in. That's awesome, Rupal. I love that. I feel the same way. You can get up in the morning and feel everything you do is for the greater good. And so I'm excited, man, because I remember, man, it must have been like eight years ago. You were literally uncovering the opportunity and customer success.

[00:03:11] We were joking around before we started the recording that like being on that call with you about how customer success is going to shape medtech. And so you said healthcare customer success is at mile marker one. Talk to me about that and really help us understand what it is, where did it come from, and what exactly is the value and why we're at mile marker one.

[00:03:37] Yeah, it's a fun story. And I do remember some of those early conversations, Saul, and I really didn't know what I was getting myself into eight years ago. But to give you a real crisp line of sight to customer success, I'm going to give you a little bit of an origin story. And for that, I'm going to take you back to 2006. And there was a small company called Salesforce.com.

[00:04:01] And they had recently grown from 15,000 to over 120,000 customers in a year. They had 88% bookings growth year over year for the previous three. They had moved their market cap up from 300 million to over one and a half billion. So they were doing well. And all of that triggered a wildly successful IPO. And at their party, their party that was led by a sales leader, he got up in front of everyone and said,

[00:04:31] congratulations, we're all millionaires. That's the good news. The bad news is we'll be out of business in about a year and a half. And that was some cold water on a pretty exciting party. And the reason he said that was that they had 8% churn on a monthly basis of their existing customers. 8%. So doing the math real quick, they were losing almost the entirety of their customer roster on a yearly basis

[00:05:00] because they could not hang on to that which they had fought so hard to acquire. So even though they had a great solution, even though they had a superlative sales and marketing group, even though they were meeting an unmet need, they could not hang on to these customers. And that gave birth or triggered the standing up of a new organization that at that time was focused on retaining customers.

[00:05:27] And since that time, you know, the last 20, 25 years, customer success has become table stakes. In both SaaS and high tech. And as we look now at where it is, I'd say a third industry that has dipped its toes in the waters of customer success is healthcare, along with fintech probably. But healthcare is relatively new. I'd say the last eight years or so.

[00:05:54] And because of exit barriers and because of the sales cycle and a lot of other differences, I'd say biotech and pharma are not as down the road with adopting customer success. Informatics, I would say, is a little bit further. And then medtech is sort of in the middle.

[00:06:17] But all of them collectively in the aggregate are still very, very early days compared to Salesforce or AT&T or some of these other companies. My mentor, Janine Sneed, who is the chief customer officer at IBM. A lot of these companies are quite a bit ahead.

[00:06:37] But, you know, Sol, that just gives us the opportunity in medtech specifically to stand up new and to bring new and to redefine sort of the space for ourselves. Because we have differences that SaaS and high tech don't have. So, Rupal, I love it. By the way, I love the history. I didn't know that CS started with Salesforce. That's pretty neat. Kind of like really funny moment there where it wasn't because we're losing all this business.

[00:07:06] We're all millionaires, but we got to get it together. Why do you think medtech has been slow to adopt this? And how do you explain CS, customer success, to a healthcare executive who's never had the role on their org chart? Okay. So, let's start with the second question first. I'll explain it this way. Yeah. At a very abstract level, and because I'm a recovering engineer, everything is an equation for me. Right?

[00:07:35] So, customer success is equal to customer experience plus customer outcomes. So, I'd ask you to sort of keep that in mind as we go through this. But I look at customer success this way, that it's a relatively new business function. And it's focused on existing customers. And so, where sales and marketing is focused, let's say even laser focused on customer acquisition. Acquisition. Yeah.

[00:08:02] Customer success is focused on customer retention. Retention. And expansion. Right? And so, that's a really big differentiation. And I'd say the ultimate goal is how do we create more customer-centric organizations? And for me, in my career and where I've been and what I've done, I like to do it this way. I think of it as embedding the customer voice at an enterprise decision-making level.

[00:08:27] So, we are taking the customer voice, injecting it into decision-making. And in the end, we're focused on driving the P&L performance. We're focused on informing strategic direction. And then, ultimately, advancing customer and patient outcomes and experiences. And if you want to think of it this way, Saul, it's almost a little bit like, and this is for any organization, like an employee health survey. So, what happens in an employee health survey?

[00:08:57] Right? You and I get asked questions. That gets aggregated. And our leadership comes back to us and says, look, here's where we're good. Here's where you say we can improve. Let's talk about how we go forward further together. And in that vein, there's some strong similarities with customer success there. So, explain it that way. No, no. That's really great. And by the way, I love your equation. It's so simple.

[00:09:24] And as an engineer, like you're built to fix problems, right? And you're in this matrixed organization thinking to yourself, man, like the problem's there. And I see the way to solve this. Let's just make this happen. And so, with AI, org charts are changing anyway.

[00:09:46] So, why not take this opportunity of change and make the CS, this customer service and medtech revolution happen? So, how is it different from other customer success type activities that you've seen in software and IT? Yeah. That's where the fun of this comes from. And just between you, me, and your listeners, I didn't come up with anything cool. I really just stole everything from software and high tech.

[00:10:16] And now we're shaping it, right? We're shaping it for our reality. And our reality versus SaaS and high tech is a little different. Number one, our org designs have a sales group and a marketing group. And let's talk about medtech specifically. I'll leave pharma, biotech, and informatics alone for now. We have sales and marketing. When you talk about SaaS and you talk about some of these other industries, high tech that have embraced customer success, they have customer success managers.

[00:10:42] So, for every 10 sales reps, they'll have two to two and a half customer success managers who are specifically responsible for retention and expansion. So, right off the bat, the org model is a little different. Now, we have clinical specialists, whether you're at Comedian or J&J or Medtron or Solventum. That's different. That's a little bit more focused on adoption. Adoption of the therapy, adoption of a protocol, perhaps.

[00:11:11] Those industries have a dedicated focus in their org design. It is built within their org design. And so, that's the first big difference. The second one is the exit barriers. If you have software to switch to a new software, unless it's just so systemic, and even the ones that are big, you can switch.

[00:11:30] If you're talking about a ventilator or you're talking about some other types of medtech-based devices or solutions where people are trained, it's in their workflow, and they know the devices and they know the protocol. It's a lot harder to switch. And so, the exit barriers are such that in SaaS and high-tech, people can jump.

[00:11:54] And so, the idea of let's keep them, they put a lot of effort the last 25 years into building that capability out. So, my thought was why not shamelessly steal from what they are doing and apply it here? And I'd say the last big difference is, look, man, we are SaaS, high-tech again. It's B2B for the most part. We are not that. We are B2B to C. I mean, we have patients at the end of this.

[00:12:23] And we, all of us, that live in this space, keep that in mind. And I would imagine, many of us, that's the reason we're here. And so, because of that, we need to make sure, are our clinicians and our patients, what are their outcomes like? What's their experience like with our solution? So, there are differences. Yeah. Yeah. RuPaul, on the exit barriers, I find that one really interesting. Do you think that exit barriers are decreasing?

[00:12:52] I think in some sense they are because you have these GPOs that are, this is proliferation of GPOs and aggregation of things. And so, now, what you have is, if there is a direction that people are going in, they're kind of locked into that.

[00:13:11] But also, and this is where it gets really fascinating to me, we talk about, as sales folks, as marketers, we talk about product and price and service. And that sort of sets the bar for value. What if you could codify experience and outcomes? That's yet another block that helps you set value. And so, now, all of a sudden, the exit barriers are different.

[00:13:39] Because we have raised the value bar from just product, price, and service. And I don't mean just, but those are the traditional. The basics. Yeah. Yeah, and now we've created a fourth lever, you know, or a fourth dimension to our value proposition. We can talk about the outcomes and the experiences that our clinicians and our patients receive.

[00:14:06] And so, the exit barriers really do now, they change quite a bit with that added dimension. I like that, man. That's a really great way to think about it. And so, we're talking about a new category here in MepTech. How does it change commercial dynamics? Yeah, it is a forcing function. It is an absolute forcing function between sales, marketing, service, any group that touches the customer.

[00:14:35] And we just went through this at Solventum, actually. We very carefully mapped out, what does a customer journey look like? And I mean stem to stern, right? So, we're talking about early stage awareness through contracting, through deployment, through invoicing, because we touched the customer there too, to retention, to expansion, to advocacy, and then sort of back again. And at Solventum, I'll take a moment about Solventum. What?

[00:15:05] I've been all over the place. And this is an opportunity that we have to recraft, redesign, re-engineer how we engage with our customers. And that's exactly what we're doing. So, throughout this customer journey, to go back to your question now, sorry. To go back to the customer journey part and the commercial part, imagine if you were never worried about losing a customer. Imagine if you had a playbook on how to grow your customer.

[00:15:35] Imagine if your customer saw you, Sol, as a trusted advisor and not a transactional vendor. Our interaction with our customer would be vastly different. And customer success helps do all of that. It takes insights through radical listening and injects them throughout the journey. So, sales now and marketing and service, they're all tied together on that journey.

[00:16:02] And they're all reading from the same sheet of music, which says, here's what our customer cares about. Because in the end, and this is something I love reminding folks, we don't get to decide what is important to our customers. I'm going to say it again. We don't get to decide what's important to our customers. So, it's up to us to listen, to take that, to internalize it, and to action on it.

[00:16:29] And that changes the commercial landscape, absolutely, on all of those three major funds, sales, marketing, and service. And it's a lot of fun. I love that. It's very proactive. And categories like this, they get built by movements, not just one person. So, who else is in this with you? And how do you know when the category has actually arrived? Yeah. Oof. It's a tough one.

[00:16:57] So, who else is in it with me? There are a handful of my counterparts at different organizations. Todd over at Intuitive does a great job. I think there are pockets of J&J that do a great job. Abbott has pockets as well.

[00:17:14] But I would love to, Saul, I would love to start to partner with folks at an enterprise level and talk about how we as an industry, MedTech, can better define customer success, right? We get to better define it. And through definition, we get to, and again, put aside all the confidentiality stuff for a moment, just at a pure category level. How do we better define it? How do we articulate value?

[00:17:43] How do we grow the next generation of leaders in this? I think that's when we start to say, look, this is truly here. It took 25 years for customer success to be table stakes in both SaaS and high tech, where they have now, I think it's 35%, 40% of Fortune 100 SaaS companies have customer success representation at the C-suite level. So, there's not chief customer officers everywhere, but I think that's a good marker.

[00:18:12] And the call to action to anyone listening, if you live in this space, I'd love to talk to you. And I get the chance, I get the honor of getting to teach and lecture on this in different MBA programs, Saul, and the next generation. Oh, so much fun. It's terrifying. Where are you at? Where are you teaching nowadays? Santa Clara. My high school son is, can I do a proud dad moment for a second? Absolutely, man. What's your son's name? Luke.

[00:18:38] And so, Luke just graduated high school, just played in the state championship basketball tournament, that game, sorry. And then he's going to be going to Santa Clara. But I got the opportunity to teach in their MBA class and were to teach a course as part of their executive MBA. And it opened eyes. And I got to tell you, people said, I had no idea this existed. You know, I understand sales. I understand marketing. I understand these traditional categories and functions. But I didn't know this existed.

[00:19:09] And that was a fun thing for me. And so, that triggered something in my head to say, what if I partnered with other medtech leaders to push this category along and to mature it? And we can attract new folks. And who wins? I told you all of this. We started at the beginning with all of this was very personal for me. Who wins is our clinicians and our patients. Totally, man. Well, I love the shout outs here that you've made, the opportunity.

[00:19:38] Hey, if anybody's listening to this and RuPaul said resonates with you, what's the best way they could reach out? Yeah, LinkedIn is always there. That's easy enough. Cool. And gosh, I've got a... And I'm happy to help not just for Solventum, but I'm happy to help folks find their place in this space wherever it may be. You were sharing that you love mentoring, right? Like, that's one of your... Yeah. That's why you teach.

[00:20:05] I've just been on the recipient side of it, right? Actually, my current boss, Chris Wagner, he won mentor of the year. That's easy. Shout out to Chris. Chris, Chris. Shout out to him. Although Brent Boucher, who also works at Solventum, likes to remind Chris and I both that he started talking to me first about coming over to Solventum. But so many leaders... That's funny. So many leaders have guided, right?

[00:20:31] Whether it's Chris or Brent or back at Medtronic, Julia, or folks from all over. So I'm grateful to all of them. And I've received Andrew Malcolmson. I've received a lot of direction and guidance from people over the years. So I'm happy to pay it forward. And then, as I mentioned, my current mentor is Janine Sneed at IBM. This is a person who's willing to invest time in me.

[00:20:57] So absolutely, the way I pay her back for that is I pay it forward. So reach out to me on LinkedIn. I'm happy to have a conversation, be a thought partner, and talk to you more about customer success. Love that, RuPaul. Hey, look, and maybe on the next meeting that we all meet at, whether it be device talks or AdvaMed, we're having a conversation, a panel about customer success. Because I think that's where you're taking it, RuPaul. It's happening. So I don't know. Let's see if we could do something about that.

[00:21:27] That would be kind of fun, I feel like, to move the agenda forward. Folks, thanks for tuning in to this episode with RuPaul Ayer. Just an incredible individual. Moving forward, this topic of customer success and medtech. Check out the show notes. And if something resonated today, reach out to him or share the episode with a friend. Because that's how we move this business forward. And RuPaul, thanks so much for joining us. This is a lot of fun. Saul, thank you so much for having me.