While many insurance plans include preventive care, Curative’s distinctive feature is providing 100% coverage for all in-network care to actively promote prevention.
In this episode, Fred Turner, co-founder and CEO of Curative, shares insights into the dire need for transformation in employer-sponsored health insurance, addressing the issues faced by both employees and employers. He discusses the company's unique model that focuses on providing preventative care with zero out-of-pocket costs for members during the first 120 days. Fred also emphasizes the importance of simplifying the healthcare system and highlights the positive impact Curative's approach has on both employees and employers. Fred sheds light on the skepticism and reluctance of employers to adopt new health plans but emphasizes the significant impact experienced by those who embraced Curative's approach.
Tune in to learn more about the inspiring work Fred and his team are doing to revolutionize healthcare and improve access to quality care.
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[00:00:00] Hey everybody, Saul Marquez with the Health Matters podcast. I want to welcome you back
[00:00:13] to another episode of the series recorded straight from Las Vegas, Nevada. Today I have
[00:00:20] the privilege of hosting Fred Turner on the podcast. He is the co-founder and CEO of Curitiv.
[00:00:28] Thanks for having me.
[00:00:29] It's a pleasure to have you here. There's certainly a lot of discussion happening at the event and
[00:00:34] look we're looking for innovative ideas to help push healthcare forward. Talk to us a little bit
[00:00:39] about why you're interested in healthcare and what inspires your work in it.
[00:00:43] Yeah so we are a new health plan. We just started about 18 months ago on the Curitiv
[00:00:48] plan launched at the beginning of this year but previously we were one of the largest COVID
[00:00:52] testing companies in the US. So we scaled from 7 to 7,000 people in 12 months and grew
[00:00:58] it to close to 10% of all US COVID testing. So we had quite a unique perspective working
[00:01:04] with every payer in the country and seeing every possible way they have to avoid paying
[00:01:09] for something or to screw up paying for something across 12,000 different payers.
[00:01:14] So we'd sort of seen it from the other side. We'd also been a large employer trying
[00:01:18] to provide healthcare for 7,000 employees and try as we might we couldn't find good plan
[00:01:23] options that provided quality care for our employees. So we've been on that side and
[00:01:29] that really inspired us to want to build a better payer specifically for the employer space.
[00:01:34] I love it and excited to learn more about it. Curitiv recently conducted a national survey
[00:01:41] as I understand to understand the issues members with traditional employer based insurance
[00:01:45] plans face and deal with. Tell us about some of the highlights from those findings.
[00:01:51] I think what we really found highlights the problem with high deductible health plans
[00:01:55] and how it's we've gone to the point where even though people are technically insured,
[00:01:59] they're functionally uninsured. They're not able to access care. You know, I think
[00:02:03] we found in the study that one in four people are not able to actually afford their
[00:02:08] out of pocket costs if they have to access care. And about 35% of people have deferred
[00:02:14] preventative care that was recommended or lab tests because their out of pocket cost is too
[00:02:18] high. And 43% of people have missed doses of medications that they're on because they can't
[00:02:24] afford the out of pocket cost of filling those scripts. So it's showing that even though
[00:02:28] people are getting health insurance from their employer, they're not getting value from it
[00:02:31] because their deductibles have risen to a point where it's unreasonable for them to
[00:02:35] actually be able to afford the care they need. And what we think this leads to is this
[00:02:39] massive care deferral where things that could be dealt with on a preventative side by a primary
[00:02:44] care doctor, we're getting missed and put off until your pre diabetes is now showing up in the
[00:02:49] emergency room with diabetic foot ulcer leading to an amputation. So you're going from something
[00:02:55] that could have been dealt with in a primary care setting for a low cost. But to avoid paying
[00:02:59] for that health plans are sort of kicking it down the line to future years. And it ends
[00:03:03] up being an ER visit or a hospital stay, which obviously costs far more money in the
[00:03:07] long term. But that little bit of deferral saved you money in the short term. So plans are
[00:03:13] sort of putting off this care to later and then effectively paying interest on it at a
[00:03:17] later date.
[00:03:18] Fred, well said. And it is a well known issue. A lot of Americans struggle with this
[00:03:24] problem. And also the providers are struggling with this problem of denials for care.
[00:03:31] Yep.
[00:03:31] So you're certainly hitting a nerve with with the program that you have here.
[00:03:35] We're trying to do it a little differently.
[00:03:36] I love it. You have a pin. You're wearing a pin that says, it's time for health insurance
[00:03:42] that actually pays for health care. I love that. I love your pin and it highlights a very
[00:03:49] important thing. So I want to learn more. You know, given all these problems with
[00:03:54] traditional employer sponsored health insurance, what is curative doing differently to
[00:03:58] address these issues?
[00:03:59] Yes, we have a very unique model that really focuses on getting our members the
[00:04:03] preventive care they need. So to start off with members get no out of pocket
[00:04:08] cost for the first 120 days. So no copay, no deductible and the coinsurance for any
[00:04:13] in network care for the first 120 days. Now within that 120 day window, they need
[00:04:18] to come and do what we call a baseline visit. This is with curative staff. And
[00:04:23] basically it's a mix of a health plan on boarding with their preventive medical
[00:04:27] visit. So making sure they're getting the services they need. And as long as
[00:04:31] they show up and do that one hour visit, and they can do it virtually, they continue
[00:04:34] to get the $0 out of pocket cost for the rest of the year. So we call it Netflix
[00:04:38] for health care. Pay your monthly premium and you can access as much care as you
[00:04:42] want. Now if you don't show up and do your baseline visit on the 121st day,
[00:04:46] you will have a $5,000 deductible and 20% current insurance. So it's a
[00:04:50] really normal way, really big carrot and stick. You better show up 98% of
[00:04:55] people show up and do the visit. You look at like typical plans and they
[00:04:59] have engagement numbers sort of in the single digit percentage, right? Like
[00:05:03] some of these diabetes programs, hypertension programs, you may be getting
[00:05:06] 10, 20% of people to engage. We actually get 98% of our members to show up
[00:05:10] and give us one hour of their time, one on one every year. And that is the
[00:05:14] start of their preventive health journey. I love it. Thank you. And
[00:05:17] just a couple more questions around coverage. So when you guys are
[00:05:21] providing coverage, do you cover it all from surgeries to doctors visits
[00:05:26] to cancer care? All of that or even cover acupuncture. Even acupuncture.
[00:05:30] So there's really this, I think of acupuncture and some of those kind of
[00:05:33] Eastern medicine types of procedures, more preventative care because I
[00:05:39] think they get it over there better than we do. So talk to us a little bit
[00:05:42] about that. What's the philosophy there? There's pretty good days
[00:05:45] actually that acupuncture for back pain is about as effective as
[00:05:48] surgery. And depending on what you believe that maybe that they're
[00:05:52] both equally effective plus ebos, but you got to follow the data on
[00:05:56] these kind of things. And it's certainly far fewer negative
[00:06:00] outcomes coming from acupuncture than surgeries that are probably
[00:06:04] unnecessary and a lot of cases. That's for sure. How does
[00:06:08] curatives mission align with the overall improvement of the
[00:06:12] healthcare system at large? We're really trying to simplify
[00:06:15] the system. So I think one of the aspects we took from COVID
[00:06:18] is just making it really simple for patients to get access.
[00:06:21] And so that's partly why the zero, zero benefit design came
[00:06:24] from is how can you actually design a health plan that somebody
[00:06:27] can really understand what is it going to cost them to go and do
[00:06:30] something right to go see their doctor to fill a script. And the
[00:06:33] only thing that people can actually definitely get their head
[00:06:35] around and understand is if it costs them zero. It's easy to
[00:06:38] remember. It's not zero if this and if that and little
[00:06:42] asterisks $15 and only after your deductible is met because
[00:06:47] people just their eyes close over they stop listening. You
[00:06:50] have to make it simple enough that everybody can understand. So
[00:06:52] I think simplicity is really key if you want people to engage
[00:06:55] in preventative care, you know, to stop putting barriers in the
[00:06:58] way of them doing it. And simplicity and members actually
[00:07:01] understanding the benefit that they are paying for is really
[00:07:05] key to that.
[00:07:05] It sounds like a very fantastic plan. And I think about
[00:07:11] employers, they too are frustrated with the continued
[00:07:16] rising costs of insurance plans, what they have to do to
[00:07:20] take care of their employees. I mean, essentially, they're
[00:07:21] passing through the cost right through these deductibles. Talk to
[00:07:25] us about some of the impressions you're seeing from
[00:07:27] employers. And is there maybe even distrust like is this for
[00:07:31] real?
[00:07:32] One of the hardest things and selling into the employer
[00:07:34] space is that although they are very unhappy with the
[00:07:37] current offering, they're also quite reluctant to try new
[00:07:40] things. Yeah, because they just haven't seen anything
[00:07:42] work for them before.
[00:07:43] Skepticism, right? Like you just like, is this really
[00:07:45] for real?
[00:07:46] Right.
[00:07:46] But we found once we get people over that initial
[00:07:48] hurdle and they launch and go live and they see how happy
[00:07:52] their employees are actually getting access to care. And we
[00:07:55] have all these stories of people who are I put off this
[00:07:57] surgery or I knew I was supposed to go get this
[00:07:59] procedure, but I've been ignoring it because I couldn't
[00:08:01] afford the $3,000 deductible it would have cost me to get
[00:08:04] it. They go deal with that kind of stuff. And then
[00:08:07] they're happy engaged employees with that
[00:08:10] employer instead of an employee who's maybe in pain or
[00:08:13] dealing with a chronic condition that's going to
[00:08:15] detract from their work. They can manage that
[00:08:17] condition actively, keep it under control and
[00:08:20] contribute more as an employee.
[00:08:22] Once we get people on board, they're happy we have an 87
[00:08:25] NPS score after the baseline visit. So once people do
[00:08:29] that baseline, we really try and educate people and
[00:08:31] make sure they understand their benefit and kind of kick
[00:08:34] off the plan in the right way. Then people are
[00:08:36] happy but upfront, it's persuading employers to
[00:08:38] try something new is a challenge.
[00:08:40] Yeah, no for sure. And look, you've got to try
[00:08:42] different things. We've done the same thing forever.
[00:08:45] And for everybody listening, how long have you been
[00:08:47] doing what you're doing?
[00:08:48] It's like in software, no one got fired for buying IBM
[00:08:51] as the trope, right? But it's no one got fired for
[00:08:53] buying Blue Cross and healthcare.
[00:08:55] Exactly. Exactly. So look, big opportunity here,
[00:08:58] folks to try something new. I think the
[00:09:01] definition of insanity is doing it over and over
[00:09:03] again and expecting different results. If you're
[00:09:05] tired of it, you got Fred Turner at Curative
[00:09:09] and his team ready to be in your corner for
[00:09:12] your employees health and your family's health.
[00:09:15] Fred, I really appreciate what you and the team at
[00:09:18] Curative are doing. What call to action would you
[00:09:20] leave our listeners with?
[00:09:21] I think pretty much what you just said, if
[00:09:23] you're tired of getting a 15, 20, 30 percent
[00:09:26] raise from your health plan every year and
[00:09:28] rates and passing more and more cost on to
[00:09:30] your employees and providing benefits that aren't
[00:09:33] really benefits, then try something new.
[00:09:36] Speak to your broker about Curative and get
[00:09:38] better benefits.
[00:09:39] Love it, Fred. Thank you for that. And folks in
[00:09:41] the show notes, you'll find ways to get in
[00:09:43] touch with Fred, his team, Curative. So you
[00:09:46] could take action on today's episode because
[00:09:49] health matters and it definitely starts with
[00:09:51] how you pay for it.
[00:09:53] Fred, thanks for being with us.
[00:09:54] Thanks for having me.